[Tj3]

I thought that I had just shown, on the last page, that Christianity DOES meet the criteria for a cult.

As someone else said, you have shown that is your opinion.

[Tj3]

ok thats is your opinion & your interpretation, but it's certainly not mine

Not my interpretation. Scripture says it.

[Alty]

My parents taught me to think for myself. That is why when someone demands that I do thing their way by adding interpretations, I do not feel obligated to defy what scripture says.

I wonder why people are so insistent that other must do things the way that they think that it must be done.

But Tom, you're the one insisting that we do things the way you think it must be done.

You can't have it both ways, it's give and take, not take, take, take.

You don't have to defy your interpretation of scripture, it's your right to believe what you want, as it is our right to believe what we want.

You see, I too think for myself, that seems to bother you. Why is that?

[JoeCanada76]

Not my interpretation. Scripture says it.

It is your interpretation of what you think a specific scripture says. It is fact that different people will read the same scripture and each person will take something different from it. Or sees it in a different way then somebody else.

Joe

[Synnen]

Not my interpretation. Scripture says it.

SCRIPTURE is an opinion!

GAH!

Seriously--I don't believe that the Bible is anything more than the religious OPINIONS of a bunch of guys that sat down together over some supper with bread and wine!

So--MY opinion is equal to the opinion of the BIBLE, since all OPINIONS are equal.

THAT is what you don't get--scripture is nothing more than an opinion from Joe Schmoe for those who do not follow the cult of Christianity.

[lighterrr]

As your parents taught you. :D

She's a smart little girl, takes nothing at face value, so yes, I've taught her well. She's growing up learning to ask questions and demand answers, answers I never got in the Catholic school I attended. I found those answers on my own, but not in the bible that I grew up learning.

My only hope for my children is that they find their own path, not conform to what others say. I'm not raising sheep, I'm raising wolves. :D

Alti I tried to give you a greenie :mad: but I have to spread the love. Anyhow I agree from one catholic girl who attended catholic school from age 4-18, I came out off high school completely lost and confused:confused: I also found the answers I needed on my own and will not under any circumstances step into a church again

[Tj3]

But Tom, you're the one insisting that we do things the way you think it must be done.

Not at all. Anyone is welcome to interpret the Bible if they wish. It is the Bible that says that we should not.

[Tj3]

S

So--MY opinion is equal to the opinion of the BIBLE, since all OPINIONS are equal.

I would suggest that God's opinion carries more weight.

[JoeCanada76]

Not at all. Anyone is welcome to interpret the Bible if they wish. It is the Bible that says that we should not.

Where exactly in the bible does it say that it is not up to interpretation? People who read it on a daily basis including you interpret what it says. If we were not allowed to interpret the bible we would not be able to read it.

[Alty]

Synn, I still have to spread the rep, apparently I'm not loving enough other people, only you. ;)

So--MY opinion is equal to the opinion of the BIBLE, since all OPINIONS are equal.

This says it all!

Tom, what you don't understand is that there is no absolute proof that the bible is anything more then an interesting read. You cannot prove that God wrote it, or inspired it or that God even exists.

You're basing your entire belief on a book that you believe is "Gods word" and, like everyone else, you are interpreting that book to suit your beliefs. That's fine, it's your right, but it is also our right to follow a different belief, to state that the bible is not the "word of God" because there is no proof that it is.

You can sit on your high horse all day and state that scripture speaks for itself, but it doesn't. If it did then there wouldn't be all this arguing even amongst fellow Christians. None of you seem to agree, why is that? Is it perhaps because you all interpret it differently?

You won't accept the fact that you do indeed interpret what you read, just like every other fallible human being on this planet. Unless of course you are going to tell us that you're God and that's why your interpretation is correct.

[Tj3]

Tom, what you don't understand is that there is no absolute proof that the bible is anything more then an interesting read. You cannot prove that God wrote it, or inspired it or that God even exists.

We've been through that. At one time you refused to consider evidence if it supported the Bible being divinely inspired. There is a great deal.

[Synnen]

I would suggest that God's opinion carries more weight.

My goddess was around way before your god. HER opinion carries more weight with me than an upstart book written by a bunch of men in a cult.

Do you GET it yet? The Bible is nothing more than a book to me. An interesting book, sure. But it was written by MEN, not GOD, and therefore is flawed.

[Alty]

We've been through that. At one time you refused to consider evidence if it supported the Bible being divinely inspired. There is a great deal.

Are we going backwards again?

Tom, evidence from the bible isn't evidence because I believe that the bible was written by man, not God.

Also, you're forgetting, I believe in God, I don't need you to prove God to me, I just don't believe that the bible is the "word of God" and I don't believe in organized religion.

I've said it before, I'm not a sheep, never will be. You see, I have a brain, yes, a brain, and I intend to use it, not follow someone else's line of thought simply because they say I have to.

Tom, we've already been here, and we didn't get anywhere. Heck, there is no getting anywhere with you, and I guess there's no getting anywhere with me either. Are you German? ;)

So why are we arguing, We'll never convince each other that the other is right. I just wish that once, just once, you'd listen instead of criticize everything that doesn't follow your strict guidelines and beliefs.

You've proven time and time again that an equal conversation, where you actually listen to what I say without judging, isn't possible. I really don't know why I even bother. Maybe I hope that one day you'll actually read what I say, get off your high horse and admit that my opinion holds merit. That won't happen though, so why are we here?

I honestly think that you love arguing, heck, maybe I do too, after all you sure do get my knickers in a bunch. But you see, there's a difference between the two of us. If you actually said something I agreed with, I'd be big enough to admit it. You never will.

I'll be watching, but now I have to go. My head hurts, I've had enough.

Peace.

[Nestorian]

Cowboyfriendly,

Forget about all this Religious BS, or Cult stuff. Every one's got their opinions, which have been poisoned by social conditioning.

Think for yourself,

"Believe nothing no matter where you read it, no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

First rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings not on the words.

Second rely on the teachings not on the personality of the teacher.

Third rely on real wisdom not superficial interpretation.

Fourth rely on the essence of your pure wisdom mind not on judgmental perceptions."- Buddha

It's your life, so live it. Look with in yourself and dig deep as deep as you can, past the fancy cloths, makeup/spray on sent, the hair style, past the skin/muscle/bone and right on into your inner soul.

“Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.” ~Andre Gide

“Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow.” ~Aesop

“Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying.” ~Baba Ram Dass

“Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth.” ~Ludwig Börne

May peace and kindness be with you.

[Tj3]

Are we going backwards again?

Tom, evidence from the bible isn't evidence because I believe that the bible was written by man, not God.

Let's assume for a moment that you are right.

So books written by man are not acceptable as evidence?

Also, you're forgetting, I believe in God, I don't need you to prove God to me, I just don't believe that the bible is the "word of God" and I don't believe in organized religion.

So it would not matter what evidence was brought forward.

Tom, we've already been here, and we didn't get anywhere. Heck, there is no getting anywhere with you, and I guess there's no getting anywhere with me either. Are you German? ;)

No, not German.

So why are we arguing, We'll never convince each other that the other is right. I just wish that once, just once, you'd listen instead of criticize everything that doesn't follow your strict guidelines and beliefs.

I do listen, apparently more than you realize. But that does not mean that I am required to agree, anymore than you are required to agree with me.

[Nestorian]

Tj3 she means why do you need to comment and argue against her comments when they do not agree with you.

I just wish that once, just once, you'd listen instead of criticize everything that doesn't follow your strict guidelines and beliefs.

Listen and be still. Whne it comes to some things that she says, or others, that you disagree with.

However, she'd have to do the same. Or ignore one another's posts.

Does that make more sense?

[Tj3]

Tj3 she means why do you need to comment and argue against her comments when they do not agree with you.

Interesting approach. She original directed her comments to me, and I responded. Maybe you should ask why does she need to comment and argue against my comments when they do not agree with her. On the other hand why bother? Everyone, myself included, has the right to disagree and comment. Or do you think that that right does not extend to me?

[Alty]

That's just it Tom, you did respond, but in a belittling holier then thou manner.

If what you had to say was just your opinion then I'd be fine with that, but you state your opinions as fact, and they aren't.

Opinions I can accept, your "I'm right you're wrong" attitude is the problem.

You even said it, you claim to have proof that God exists, that proof is in the bible that you believe was inspired by God. When I state that I don't believe that the bible was inspired by God then you claim that I'm unwilling to see the truth. The truth according to who? You?

You even deny that you interpret the bible. Apparently you are the only human being on the face of this earth that does not interpret things, you see the truth, and only the truth. Once again, holier then thou.

You constantly talk down to others, you won't get your point across that way, it doesn't work.

The sad thing is, if you and I both agreed to just talk, listen, discuss, I think that we could actually have a very interesting conversation. But, until you are actually willing to listen, that's not going to happen.

I'm guilty too, but I'm not alone in that guilt Tom. I'm big enough to admit it, are you?

[Nestorian]

Interesting approach. She original directed her comments to me, and I responded. Maybe you should ask why does she need to comment and argue against my comments when they do not agree with her. On the other hand why bother? Everyone, myself included, has the right to disagree and comment. Or do you think that that right does not extend to me?

I actaully believe that rights are as fleeting as a thought. They don't excist unless everyone agrees upon them. Thus majority rules. So nope, you me, Alt, and all the rest have no right to do anything. Perhaps this is on account that we are all irresponsible with what we "think" we "know".

Even if you are considered wrong by one, doesn't mean that you are indeed wrong. When some one says, "this is how it is, there are no other possibilities." or something as such, they leave no room for the other people who believe or think other wise. This "implies" to them that they are insignificant in your eyes, thus they feel the need to prove other wise. As I have warned many be for, "Don't under estimate the value of one, for one may very well be more valuable than any combined..." - Nestorian

We will not know the truth until we become one with the truth. When that happens it won't matter what others think, or that we were right or wrong; all that will matter is that we accept it and embrace it. No?

So let us be still with our disagreeing and fear of being less than to some one else, and focus on why we are hear. To give those who ask us for information the best information we can. Should we disagree, then simply state so, and move on. Only explain why if you intend to give a Red mark for some one's "inaccurate" answer. Please provide evidence/proof before giving red marks, as to my knowledge no one has yet, but it's misleading to others if we careless, reckless, and angerly start bashing one another. We are not here to convert others, we are here to give information in what I understand is s'pose to be a neuteral way, and yes our opinions do often get pulled into this.

"Nobodies right if everybodies worng."-Buffalo springfield (I think that's how it goes, I may be wrong. Relatively speaking. ;))

[Tj3]

That's just it Tom, you did respond, but in a belittling holier then thou manner.

Judging again?

If what you had to say was just your opinion then I'd be fine with that, but you state your opinions as fact, and they aren't.

No, I state opinions as opinions.

But I see that every discussion with you ends up with you going after me personally. Why not just stick to the topic?

Opinions I can accept, your "I'm right you're wrong" attitude is the problem.

You mean like when you telll me that I am wrong that I must interpret the Bible because that is your opinion?

You even said it, you claim to have proof that God exists, that proof is in the bible that you believe was inspired by God. When I state that I don't believe that the bible was inspired by God then you claim that I'm unwilling to see the truth. The truth according to who? You?

I said that when you said that you would reject any evidence that supported the Bible as inspired. In that case, it is true that the person who rejects evidence because it disagrees with what they want to believe has rejected truth.

You even deny that you interpret the bible. Apparently you are the only human being on the face of this earth that does not interpret things, you see the truth, and only the truth. Once again, holier then thou.

I know many people who don't interpret the Bible - or are you telling me that you are right and I am wrong? Have you spoken to every person on earth?

You constantly talk down to others, you won't get your point across that way, it doesn't work.

You are welcome to your opinion.

The sad thing is, if you and I both agreed to just talk, listen, discuss, I think that we could actually have a very interesting conversation. But, until you are actually willing to listen, that's not going to happen.

Why must you always attacj the person when they disagree with you?

I'm guilty too, but I'm not alone in that guilt Tom. I'm big enough to admit it, are you?

Then why do you do it every time? Why don't you bury the hatchet and discuss. Or if yolu cannot bring yourself to do so, why not just ignore those who you cannot tolerate discussing things with?