[MOWERMAN2468]

No, if you have sex with 5 people, you have sex with 5 people. I find it annoying when people make the assertion that "when you have sex with someone, you have sex with everyone they've been with before you." That idea is nonsense.

Also, you insinuated that condoms do nothing to protect against STIs. Maybe you should read about the effectiveness of condoms before you make people think they are useless.

Finally, your thoughts about the etiology of herpes simplex is completely off the mark. We know how it is spread, but we don't have drugs to kill it. The reason we can't kill herpes simplex is that it lives in nuerons, so to kill it we'd need a drug that can kill a virus without killing the nueron. We do have drugs available that prevent the virus from leaving nuerons, and in effect prevent the virus from spreading.

o.k. lets just for an example here say, you have sex with 5 people. And you contract one of the more serious stds. What do you have to do? Supply the names of all 5 sex partners correct? Then when they talk to each of those 5 people, they want to know everyone that each of them 5 have had any type of sexual contact with, correct? Now, since I explained it in a little easier terms, can you see what I meant??

[Synnen]

If you've had sex with 5 people, and you find out you have a disease... you tell those 5 people.

THEY tell the 5 or 23 or 2 people THEY have had sex with, IF THEY HAVE THE DISEASE TOO.

Or do you think people run around and tell their exes' exes about their diseases?

Whether you wait until marriage, it's simply smarter to have sex using a birth control AND a condom to prevent unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease.

Waiting until marriage is commendable, and I respect anyone who does it---but it wasn't for me. I would have married the WRONG man if I had not realized before we were married that we were NOT sexually compatible.

I will not have the morality arguments in Adult Sexuality. Would any of you like it if I started talking about sexuality in your favorite forums (like, perhaps, Christianity)?

The Adult Sexuality boards are a place where consenting adults get advice about their SEX lives. If they wanted advice about their morals, they would have posted in a different thread.

[Homegirl 50]

Well if they have screwed up sex lives, that's part of it too. Adults have sex, but when they ask for advice, they need to be prepared to hear the bitter with the sweet. You ask for an opinon , you get it whether you agree with it or not.

[MOWERMAN2468]

If you've had sex with 5 people, and you find out you have a disease....you tell those 5 people.

THEY tell the 5 or 23 or 2 people THEY have had sex with, IF THEY HAVE THE DISEASE TOO.

Or do you think people run around and tell their exes' exes about their diseases?

Whether or not you wait until marriage, it's simply smarter to have sex using a birth control AND a condom to prevent unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease.

Waiting until marriage is commendable, and I respect anyone who does it---but it wasn't for me. I would have married the WRONG man if I had not realized before we were married that we were NOT sexually compatable.

I will not have the morality arguments in Adult Sexuality. Would any of you like it if I started talking about sexuality in your favorite forums (like, perhaps, Christianity)?

The Adult Sexuality boards are a place where consenting adults get advice about their SEX lives. If they wanted advice about their morals, they would have posted in a different thread.

Yes, good valid points, but I simply gave the guaranteed results solution. That's that.

[Fr_Chuck]

THE FLAWED CONDOM

Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) researchers, using powerful electron microscopes, have found that new latex, from which condoms are fabricated, contains "maximum inherent flaw[s]" (that is, holes) 70 microns in diameter. (9) These holes are 700 times larger than the HIV-1 virus. There are pores in latex, and some of the pores are large enough to pass sperm-sized particles. Carey, et al., observed leakage of HIV-sized particles through 33%+ of the latex condoms tested. In addition, as Gordon points out in his review, the testing procedures for condoms are less than desirable. United States condom manufacturers are allowed 0.4% leaky condoms (AQL). Gordon states, "The fluctuations in sampling permits many batches not meeting AQL to be sold." In the United States, 12% of domestic and 21% of imported batches of condoms have failed to meet the 0.4% AQL. (10)


CONDOMS FAIL TESTING

In a 1988 study sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, Bruce Voeller of the Mariposa Foundation in Topanga, California, a non-profit organization dedicated to preventing the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, ranked 31 brands of latex condoms according to how well they met the U.S. and international quality assurance standards designed to ensure that condoms provide an effective barrier against human sperm. "Many of the condoms now on the market would not get FDA approval if they were required to meet today's standards," says Voeller. Although all condoms sold in the U.S.are supposed to pass quality assurance tests, those marketed before 1976 need not meet the more stringent requirements necessary to win FDA marketing approval. (11)

CONDOM CLIMATE CONTROL

Condoms are sensitive to heat and cold, yet they are not normally transported in climate-controlled vehicles. Vesey, in his study of condoms,checked 72,000 trucks and has actual photographs of eggs frying in the backs of trucks used for condom distribution. Partly due to Vesy's study, Burlington County, NJ, banned the distribution of condoms at the county's AIDS counselling center, because they concluded that the risk of liability for condom failures was too great. (17)


DEADLY DELUSIONS

In a 1990 review article by April and Schreiner, the authors summarize recent studies on HIV infection and conclude, "Recent studies on HIV prevention show the assumption that condoms provide reliable protection against HIV to be a dangerous illusion." The studies reviewed by the authors showed that the rate of seroconversion (HIV infection) associated with condom use ranged from 13% to 27% and more. (18) Frosner concludes that "Available data now indicate that efficacy of condoms has been largely overestimated." (19) In a study in Florida, where heterosexual couples used condoms, 17% of partners of AIDS patients became infected within 18 months, (20) despite the frequency of sexual relations being lower if one partner is HIV-positive.(21) Detels, et al., (22) observed a risk reduction of only 3.3:1 for those who used condoms with all of their partners, and a 1.8:1 increase in risk for those who used condoms for some of their partners as opposed to using condoms for none of their partners. This would indicate that condoms are ineffective for prolonged or lifelong protection from AIDS. (23) In addition, since 100% condom use is difficult if not impossible to obtain, the realistic number to look at would be the risk while using condoms some of the time. It is more realistic to expect teens to be abstinent (which is 100% effective in preventing sexual transmission of HIV) than it is to expect them to use condoms 100% of the time (which has an HIV failure rate approaching 100% with life-long use.) Joffe, et al., (24) state: "The association between categories of condom use and history of an STD were not statistically significant at conventional levels after adjustment for number of partners." Cohen, et al., (25) conducted a study in which patients who had contracted an STD were given a condom education course. Within nine months "19.9% of the men and 12.6% of the women returned with new STD," some multiple times. The STD reinfection rate actually increased for women. Frosner states the U.S. government has withdrawn a $2.6 million grant to study condoms because "An unacceptably high number of condom users probably would have been infected in such a study."

Why Don't Condoms Stop HPV?

Human papillomavirus differs from other sexual disease in its method of transmission; it is not spread from one person to another through the exchange of bodily fluids. Rather, it spreads through skin-to-skin contact. Since HPV is a regional, multicentric disease, it infects the entire genital area: the penis, scrotum, vulva and surrounding areas. Condoms do not cover the scrotum, nor most of the other areas that can be infected with the virus. There also tends to be contact between the anogenital skin of the partners before a condom can be correctly placed on the penis. "No known effective barrier exists that will protect the vulva or prevent vulvar transfer of the virus," according to Barbara S. M.D., M.S., clinical associate professor of family practice, University of Michigan Medical School. Adds Mary E. Verdon, M.D., of the American Academy of Family Physicians, "In the 1970s, it was demonstrated that a single sexual contact with a person infected with external genital warts carries about a 60 percent chance of transmission." However, there are several different strains of HPV that do not cause genital warts; therefore, transmission can occur without the presence of any visible symptoms. These strains are more likely to be cancerous

[Homegirl 50]

Bottom line is, it is not safe physically nor is it safe emotionally. Otherwise you would not be asking if it is wrong.
Your body is precious and it's the only one you have. Don't abuse it and let others abuse it. You have sex with a guy and you may be thinking "maybe there is a future with him" All he is thinking is "I want a piece of this"
A decent guy that cares about you as a person, that wants to get to know you as a person is not going to be jumping your bones right away, and he's not going to want someone who will give it up so easily.
Take care of yourself.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes many groups in our area have large bill boards warning of condom failure and listing various web sites.

It is stlll better than nothing and about all that we have so for those having sex please still use them, but don't expect them to stop all transfers.

[Synnen]

Well, I never stated that condoms were 100% effective.

But it's ALSO been proven that teaching only abstinence hasn't cut down the transfer of diseases or the rate of pregnancy in teenagers.

I realize that morality is part of sexuality--but the answer isn't always abstaining from sex, either.

Personally, I would say that as long as you have true respect for yourself, and true respect for your partner - and that means taking precautions, and being honest about past encounters, and getting tested for STIs, and all the responsibility that goes with having sex--then that's all the morals you need.

[americangayboy]

Fr_Chuck: could you provide me with complete list of the works you cited? I want to read the articles for myself. In case you don't know how to properly cite a source, you need to include: the author(s), year of publication, title of article, book/journal in which the article is found, volume number, and page number. Without all of that information, I cannot search the article in a reasonable amount of time.

Just to point out a flaw I've already seen in your post above: although there are pores in latex that are (in theory) large enough for sperm/HIV to pass through, semen cannot pass through. Sperm and HIV suspended in semen cannot pass through those pores, meaning that there is little risk of transmission.

[theworld1]

a number is just a number and people who judge because of it are not worth time....i am not saying to go sleep with whoever, just be careful and use protection when you do decide that the time is right. as for 5 guys...thats you business. and who are we to say if its bad. ask yourself this...do i feel ive done a bad thing? and youll have you answer!

I cannot judge a person, but I do believe that sexual intercourse should be left for after marriage, that must sound difficult but being a cristian for me it is not. I don't think bad or good should be judged by how you feel in any situation.

[Ash123]

It sounds like you do not have strong self-estem.
If you were more confident in your choices you would commit to them.
I would recommend taking a little time off and asking yourself what qualities
Would you want to be with - with one guy - for at least 6 months.
Then go SLOWWW... if it works out - it works out. If not, at least you tried
And didn't feel like anything that came along might be better than the last.

I am glad you are in a good spot with your dad... mom too I hope.
You are young. School is most important right now.

[snotbubble]

I'm 20, and wanted to wait to have sex until I was married, but a mixture of hormones and alcohol and a great relationship with my boyfriend screwed up that plan when I was 19. But, I have had 3 other boyfriends that I went to "third base with". I set standards for myself... gave myself rules. I never kissed them unless we were an official couple, if they tried to kiss me before then- I told them I wouldn't do it unless we were officially together. Then I gave myself a few months to go any further with them. The time I gave myself got shorter as I got older though. And I also stay away from promiscuous and overly flilrty guys- total turn off for me.

GIVE YOURSELF BOUNDARIES!