[startover22]

ETWOLVERINE also said this with the other statement you all have bashed... actually this was the first part...

"Sorry, but babies are ALWAYS a blessing. If not for the natural parents, then for some other person willing to adopt. What they are NOT is a punishment or something to be gotten rid of or avoided because someone sees the baby as a headache."



(I am not supporting his choice of words, but we need the whole story here guys... )

[excon]

The Woverine said this: "Sorry, but babies are ALWAYS a blessing. If not for the natural parents, then for some other person willing to adopt. What they are NOT is a punishment or something to be gotten rid of or avoided because someone sees the baby as a headache."

Hello start:

I agree with Elliot. Baby's are a blessing. However, some pregnancies are not. I believe, and the law of the land supports me, that a woman should have the right to CHOOSE whether she wants to continue to be pregnant.

excon

[ETWolverine]

Hello Elliot:

The Constitution says that a person needs to be a natural born citizen and be 35 years of age. Apparently, our founders didn't think you needed any more qualifications than that. If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

excon

Like many, excon, you confuse "eligibility" for "qualifications". Eligibility is one thing... you have to be 35 years old and born in the USA. Qualifications are a whole separate matter... the ability to do the job.

Nobody (except for a couple of real kooks who question Obama's place of birth without evidence to back it up, and whom I do not support in any way, shape or form) claims that Obama is ineligible to be president. I believe that he's perfectly eligible. I and my Conservative colleagues simply say he's unqualified.

Huge difference. And I think you know it.

C'mon Ex... you can do better than that.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Indeed ! Disgusting. No other words for that.

For ETWolverine : :mad: :mad: :mad:

.

Dislike it all you want. But Obama is the one who voted against giving medical care for babies born alive after botch abortions.

Obama sees babies as punishment for a mistake and wants to eliminate that punishment.

I see babies as a gift, and hold Obama to task for his words.

So which is more disgusting... me holding Obama to his own words, or Obama's words themselves.

I stand by my statement. As I always do.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

Obama sees babies as punishment for a mistake and wants to eliminate that punishment.

Please provide proof for that statement. Thank you.

[ETWolverine]

Hello start:

I agree with Elliot. Baby's are a blessing. However, some pregnancies are not. I believe, and the law of the land supports me, that a woman should have the right to CHOOSE whether she wants to continue to be pregnant.

excon

First there is one method that is 100% effective in preventing teen pregnancy. Unfortunately Obama doesn't support teaching that method to teens. Instead he teaches that babies are punishment for mistakes, and if you don't want the baby, you should just eliminate it. Worse, he upholds the idea of eliminating the baby even AFTER it is born, a radical position even among those who support right to choose. THAT is what upsets me most.

Furthermore, you called it the "law of the land". Well, it really isn't the law of the land. It is a Supreme Court decision, not a law. Furthermore, it is a flawed Supreme Court decision based on a "Constitutional right" that does not actually exist except in the eyes of the judges who made the decision.

What OUGHT to happen is that Roe V. Wade should be overturned and individual states should be given the authority to decide for themselves. As things stand right now, most states would implement freedom of choice, which means that nothing would change. But the abortion issue is not something that is supposed to be "the law of the land" but rather a state's rights issue, with each state deciding for itself.

It is interesting that so many people are ticked off by what I said. Usually that can be attributed to hitting a nerve.

Let's take a look at exactly what I said.

1) Obama sees babies as a punishment for a mistake. The source for this is one of his own quotes. "I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

2) I disagree with the idea that babies are a punishment for anything. They are a gift and a blessing. ALWAYS. Even in rape and incest cases and cases of danger to the mother, where I believe that abortion should be permitted. The thought of weighing the trauma of the pregnant mother against the life of the baby is painful to me, and even though I support abortion in those cases, it is a terrible loss to have to terminate those pregnancies, and the loss of something really important... life. The idea that a baby is ever anything but a blessing is abhorrent to me.

3) Obama not only supports abortion and sees babies as punishments for mistakes, he supports the termination of babies AFTER they are born from botched abortions. This too is a matter of public record. I find this position especially abhorrent.

4) Wondergirl said to me, "Thank God, Obama's older daughter is not pregnant." I responded to that by saying, "Yeah, otherwise Obama might make her get rid of her mistake (either before birth or afterwards), based on his own stated position of babies being punishments for mistakes."

Exactly what part of this do you guys find problematic? These are, after all, Obama's own positions I'm citing. If you have a problem with them, then you have a problem with Obama, not me. These aren't MY positions, they're HIS. If they offend you, put the blame where it belongs, with the guy who holds those positions. Personally, I'm disgusted by them.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Please provide proof for that statement. Thank you.

"I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

Barack Obama at Johnstown, PA Town Hall, Saturday, March 29, 2008


Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNzmly28Bmg

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

What OUGHT to happen is that Roe V. Wade should be overturned and individual states should be given the authority to decide for themselves.

How about letting each individual decide for them self? How about keeping the government out of the bedroom?

[ETWolverine]

How about letting each individual decide for them self? How about keeping the government out of the bedroom?

Fine. I agree. Just as soon as you agree that the government has no place in my wallet, my gun rack and my retirement accounts.

Freedom of choice for ALL issues.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

Agreed.

[ETWolverine]

Agreed.

Good. Then I expect you to argue against gun laws when the issue comes up. And against any expansion of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Keep the government out of the issue.

In return, I will argue in favor of the overturn of roe-v-wade in favor of individual rights to choose rather than the government's control over the issue. Keep the government out of the issue... even the Supreme Court.

[NeedKarma]

I don't have all the free time to argue as you do. I know you live for arguing but I don't.

[ETWolverine]

I don't have all the free time to argue as you do. I know you live for arguing but I don't.

Yeah... that's what I thought you'd say. :cool:

Elliot

[Skell]

he'd abandon the baby to die on its own. I'm glad his daughter isn't pregnant.

Talk about abhorrent. This was the part I found disgusting. This wasn't stating Obama's "record" as you try and claim. Not even close. It was insinuating something rather vile in fact! But hey, I'm sure you'll twist it again!

[asking]

I see babies as a gift,

If I sent you a baby as a gift would you keep her and raise her yourself, personally keeping her with you 24/7 for the next 18 years?

[startover22]

If I sent you a baby as a gift would you keep her and raise her yourself, personally keeping her with you 24/7 for the next 18 years?

I know you weren't asking me, but yes, if it were legal YES. And if it meant that a life was saved, maybe two (mother and child)... then yes, yes I would.