[HeadStrongBoy]

I do agree with some of what njab1 has posted. Especially about prayer and studying the Bible. And his reference to Zephaniah 2:3 is most excellent. But let me get back to Triund's question about "Jesus misinforming His disciples." Clearly (at least to me) Jesus did not misinform them. He was telling the truth, of course. God does not lie. He cannot lie. But He can withhold information. Jesus said "I and the father are one. If you have seen me, you have seen the father." That means whatever the father knows (the time of the end) Jesus knows also. No question at all about that. You cannot separate God from Jesus. They are one and the same. Based on that immutable fact we must conclude that "the son not knowing" (Mark 13:32) MUST refer to someone OTHER than Jesus. There is more evidence of that, but let's go back to the "misinforming" issue. Jesus deliberately withheld the time of His second coming because He wanted them to focus on the task of getting out the gospel (the Bible) as it was then understood. There are verses that show that quite a few disciples expected Jesus to set up a literal kingdom in Judea at that time. He wanted to completely disabuse them of that notion. His kingdom was coming at some future time yet indefinite FOR THEM.

[Triund]

We have been since the Resurrection.

With all due respect Wonder, we are in the time of Last Days. Now this period ends in 3 months, 2 years, 50 years, 1000 years, only God the Father knows. Things I am looking for are from Joel Rosenberg`s talks. 2nd Thessolonians chapter 2 talks about the Antichrist entering the Temple and descreting it and claiming himself to be God. Third Jewish Temple is not built yet. Another thing is that HIS name is still not reached to all on the earth, though missionaries are reaching to more and more people. There are other things too which tell us that we are in the slot of Last Days. But in spite of this calculation, I have not forgotten that whether HE comes first or calls me Home first, in either case I have to be ready to meet HIM.

[Triund]

Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.

[Wondergirl]

I have to be ready to meet HIM.

Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

[dwashbur]

Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

I have to disagree about Revelation's usefulness, but its message is about perseverance, not some kind of secret way to be part of the "in" crowd. That said, John's epistles say in so many words that the "last days" began with Jesus' resurrection, since he says that he and the letters' recipients are in the "last days."

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order as they do arguing over this kind of nonsense, the world wouldn't have so many good reasons to laugh at us.

[Wondergirl]

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order

That's what I do before 6 P.M.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.

[Wondergirl]

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.

And false prophets have used all sorts of gimmicks and formulas to come up with a date for the end of the world, All were wrong. We'll see you here on the 22nd of May?

[dwashbur]

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

You have a bit of a problem here, because the Hebrew calendar is lunar, not solar. So this particular day would come out different each year in our calendar. That's why to this day, Passover and Rosh Hashanah are on different dates every year.

To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

Another problem: our calendar is somewhere between 4 and 6 years off from the actual year of Jesus' birth, and hence is going to be that far off from the purported date of the flood. So by this reckoning, the events Mr. Camping is expecting should have already happened, around 3-5 years ago.

So as WG said, we'll see you here on May 22. Just do yourself a favor and don't give up on God when it doesn't happen; see my sig line.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

[dwashbur]

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

We don't actually know what year Jesus was born. If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it as long as it' s based on something concrete, like an archaeological find, and not the biblical eisegesis of some self-appointed prophet.

And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Keep digging the hole deeper, this is getting interesting.

[HeadStrongBoy]

dwashbur: And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

[dwashbur]

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

Oops. Definitely a bit of cepahlic flatus there. I stand corrected.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Fr_Chuck

First God is not hiding, he is right there...

I disagree. And I can show from the Bible that God does indeed hide from us in various ways and at various times. And a big point is... If He were "right there" as you claim,. then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?

[Wondergirl]

then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?

"Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting HeadStrongBoy: then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ? "Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?

[1] First I know that the Bibles we normally read are mere translations. So the word seek in English most likely has other possible meanings (and shades of meaning) that have not been chosen by the translators. Ever hear the phrase "lost in translation" ?
[2] Yes, on some LEVEL God is absolutely hiding from the whole human race. It's because of a little thing, not very important really... sin. Remember sin ? We all have it. Even the most holy born again Christian still has to struggle with his (or her) sin nature. There's no getting away from it. Of course we can delude ourselves. Many people today do not even consider the possibility that sin is real. It' not popular.

So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.

[Wondergirl]

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?

NEVER would I think that!

So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

[HeadStrongBoy]

WG

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.

[Wondergirl]

WG


Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.

Thanks to God's love and care, I emotionally and physically survived severe anemia and breast cancer during the past year. No imagination here!

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.

Why are you dissing me?

That "icon" (it's actually called an avatar) is a reminder of Thomas Jefferson, my beloved cat who died two years ago. My "signature," visible on the old skin, is "Rest in peace, Thomas Jefferson -- July 4, 1994-March 5, 2009."

[southamerica]

This thread at first made me intrigued and then I got sad. So sad.

I have always known God, though I have lost touch from time to time (selfish teen, selfish times as an adult) but I always want to improve myself. When I feel like I am missing God, it's because I have been selfish, I have been lazy. There has never been a moment, regardless of how wicked I had been, that I couldn't dig deep and ask if God could hear me. He always hears me, no matter how small I am. That's comforting if nothing else.

Why all the drama over the day of reckoning? When it happens, it will happen. Whether I'm judged in life or in the afterlife, I'm going to be judged. I have so many issues with my own selfishness and worldly obsessions that I seriously just don't have the time to preach to everyone else about what the bible does and doesn't say (dang it more selfishness).

My pastor once told me when I was struggling with my judging ways that "sin should be a mirror that we use to measure ourselves, not a spotlight that we shine on others."

I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God. As long as they don't stand in the way of someone else's journey, what right have I to stop them? I don't know that my version of things is going to get me the golden ticket, but I sure do pray it will!