[classyT]

450donn,

I read it your number 4 post. I understand your position but you are under the assumption that all sin must be confessed in order to be saved. I believe the Bible teaches all sins, past, present, future are covered under the blood. ( for true believers) I lose my fellowship with the Lord when I don't confess them. Not my salvation.

I would not now or EVER suggest that suicide is OK... for it is NOT! But I think we can have a definite answer...

What did the Lord Jesus say to those people in that day that they stood before him on Judgement day... they claimed to have done all kinds of miracles and wonders in his name and he said... depart from me you worker of iniquity... I NEVER ( never is key here) knew you. I know the Lord Jesus and he KNOWS me... he cannot say he NEVER knew me. He either does or he doesn't there just is no between. That is my take.

[N0help4u]

I agree Classy.
The distinction is fellowship not being as close and not loss of salvation.

If you think about it in God's eyes we sin everyday and don't even know it so how can we repent and confess every single sin.
While we may think we are doing all the do's and not doing the don'ts and asking forgiveness when we happen to fall short there are sins we aren't even seeing.
Like the sin of omission and the sin of not doing what God wants us to do.
Like how often do we feel lead that we should go witness to somebody or comfort somebody in need and then we just walk away thinking I
have other things to do. We don't see that often that was God putting it on our heart and we failed him.

[arcura]

Dear This,
Yes, only God has the answer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[snotbubble]

I've always wondered the same. Suicide and depression runs deep through my family. I would never do it because I feel that my life and body is a gift from god and is not mine to take.
This is going to sound crazy and I'm hesitant about even sharing it but you guys don't know me so I will...
When I was about 12, My aunt (a catholic) told me that when she was 17 she shot herself with my grandma's gun (she was a sheriff). She went on for hours going in terrifying details about hell. (I'll skip those parts) She said she tried to yell and pray for god but her voice was silenced from within. She then prayed with her heart and in her head and she said she saw a bright light and the claws released her body. She's still alive today and has scars that she says were from the claws. It's a pretty crazy story but I believe her and her story scared the crap out of me for years. I think god forgave and saved her in the very moment she cried out to him. Of coarse god is the only one who can judge your friend and nobody can really say where he was sent. I feel that if he was a true christian that he really is with God right now even if what he did was wrong.

I'm really sorry about your loss. I can only imagine the constant worry you have for your friend and the feeling of not knowing. Just keep praying and I will pray for you too.

[soldierandpixie]

I have always stumbled on this, but in the end, the choice I have decided on is this.

no one sane would kill thierself, so if you do, there is a mental defect or some emotional problem, that caused it.

Thus a person who does this,is not of clear mind and they are not responsible for thier actions.

But on the other hand, merely "claiming" to be a christian is not saving you either, most christians are not saved. The real question only they know is if they accepted Christ as thier Savior at some point in thier life.

This answer really hurt me, Fr_Chuck.
I have lost SIX people to suicide in the past two years, two of them were my long-time baptist christian boyfriend and my catholic best friend. Now, I know Catholics may share different views to us Baptists but has the Lord not proven in His word that we are loved and are at right to seek forgiveness to our sins? I accepted Christ into my life at the age of fourteen, I was baptized in front of the entire congregation so I can understand your annoyance with those who may not have been saved.

Now, only a single one of my lost loved ones suffered from depression, so how dare you say they aren't sane. Who are you to judge who is mentally calm and who is not? And depression is <b> not </u> a mental defect, as the word defect is to say one is without something vital to life; a physical need to live.

All I recommend is anyone who has their doubts to see one side of this debate. Please take the time to have a read of this essay a friend of my father's wrote many years ago. But I believe it may open your subconscious to new insight.

Suicide: A Civil Right

[classyT]

Soldier,

Wow. I'm sorry you have lost so many people to suicide. That is horrible and devastating to say the least.

I really can't speak for Fr_chuck but when I read his post I got something totally different from it.

I think he just meant you have to be in a horrible state of mind to commit the act. I personally don't believe people are thinking clearly, whether it is from depression, fear, pain... whatever. AND if they are thinking clear and call themselves a Christian it would be a hard pill to swallow to believe such a thing.

I have no doubt the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. PERIOD. (IF one is a true believer.) BUT there are many people who sit in church Sunday after Sunday and only have a mental belief. That is to say, they believe that Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again however it has NO effect on their life. They have NO relationship with HIM. There is NO fruit. These are the people who say they are Christians... but they do not know HIM.

As a Christian woman, I believe suicide is WRONG and it certainly is NOT OUR RIGHT, But I can't find one verse to suggest that it isn't covered under the blood.

[arcura]

soldierandpixie,
I read Fr_Chuck differently than you do and I agree with him.
I do think that a person who commits suicide is not in their right mind at that time.
I have lost several good friends to suicide, some were high school buddies.
One was an incurable alcoholic.
One was out of him mind over a divorce.
All were very upset with something or other.
I have prayed for God's love and mercy for them them.
That is all that I could do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[artlady]

Until you are trying to kill yourself you will never understand the place you are in that makes you want to do that.
That's it!

[arcura]

artlady,
That is very likely so!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

.

If you think about it in God's eyes we sin everyday and don't even know it so how can we repent and confess every single sin.

.

NOhelp4U, I think you are speaking of OT time frame, before Christ set us free from sin. And I trust daily prayer in the very words that Christ taught us to pray. This prayer can be heard by God, and we are forgiven as an answer to that prayer. (if we believe in fulness of Faith)

This is Why, from what Jesus told us about sin (John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)

What is that truth that we should know and set us free?


John 8:34-35 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Truth being HIS blood does abidth forever in the the house of God. It is there for your forgiveness.

So if we believe in Christ's blood and it's worthiness.. And we call upon our Father in prayer daily in hope of HIS Grace, we are forgiven.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Plus I trust individuals can go further into the fullness of faith when they are begotten again in the conformed image of Christ, and walk in the Spirit. That should be the true hope of every individual, to be all that God created them to be, and being conformed into the image of Christ and His righteousness.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:24-25 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

There is no walking double-minded. One day to walk in the spirit and the next hour to sin. Instead we follow the footsteps of Christ, walk in the spirit to the One Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that offers a good conscience toward God.

[sndbay]

Until you are trying to kill yourself you will never understand the place you are in that makes you want to do that.
Thats it!

Agreed, for I have known several different individuals who have fallen in their weakness to suicide. One was a very sweet young girl, who experienced visual second evil person that scared her throughtout a day. These visions were terrible for her, and only someone having the same images of connection could fully understand her fear of life here on earth.

Another was a young man who fell in his own self-esteen. He jumped off a bridge to hang himself, and it left him in a coma and unconscious for 6 months before he died. The entire experience gave eye opening witness to his family and other influences that were connected to his life. They wondered if God was giving him time to change his mind, knowing that God gives no one more then they can bare. But they all felt God was in full controll of the final plug to pull.

And another old man who walked night after night, in the middle of the road, drunk in the dark. Everyone felt when his final walk was ended, a car unaware of his present hit him. What sorrow is left for those who were involved, and felt they had no controll to help him. Was this not in God hands who will permit an end to evilness?

We really can't know all the answers or judge any individuals path in life. God's hand of power and strength is there to call upon. (FAITH)

[arcura]

sndbay,
Yes we are to confess our sins that we are sinners.
If we sin and don't know it confessing that we are sinners I think covers that.
When I pray I ask God to forgive my sins AS I forgive others and I do forgive everyone who has sinned against me by though word and deed whether I know about it or not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
Yes we are to confess our sins that we are sinners.
If we sin and don't know it confessing that we are sinners I think covers that.
When I pray I ask God to forgive my sins AS i forgive others and I do forgive everyone who has sinned against me by though word and deed whether I know about it or not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes Fred, man that walks this earth are sinners, and those who have no FAITH remain under the law of sin. They are unable to justify themselves.
But those who hold stedfast to ONE FAITH, and confess the begotten Son of God as ONE LORD, To follow HIS footsteps and surrender their ways to do the WILL of GOD. They walk in the in the Spirit, and are conformed to HIS image of righteousness. (Romans 8:28) They are the new man or new creature (Col 3: 10 Eph 4:24 2 Cr 5:17) They are washed of their old conscience in ONE BAPTISM to have a good conscience toward God.

We are not only to forgive others who sin against us, but we are to cover over the sins of other who sin against us. That means we can't talk of them likewise in gossip or judge them. God's grace is for all man to be clean, and forgiven. Look to heap coals upon their heads, which would be a fresh start of a new day in warmth and feeding. (Pro 25:22 Romans 12:20)

This is off the thread concerning suicide

[arcura]

sndbay
We are not clean unless our sin are forgiven and we must confess them as sinners.
There is not a week or less that goes by in which we have sinned in some way.
Those sins must be dealt with.
They are NOT automatically forgiven when we do them.
Do you think that a person who murders another person is automatically forgiven.
I surely hope not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay
We are not clean unless our sin are forgiven and we must confess them as sinners.
There is not a week or less that goes by in which we have sinned in some way.
Those sins must be dealt with.
They are NOT automatically forgiven when we do them.
Do you think that a person who murders another person is automatically forgiven.
I surely hope not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

POSTED #70

I trust daily prayer in the very words that Christ taught us to pray. This prayer can be heard by God, and we are forgiven as an answer to that prayer. (if we believe in fulness of Faith)


Truth being HIS blood does abidth forever in the the house of God. It is there for your forgiveness.

So if we believe in Christ's blood and it's worthiness.. And we call upon our Father in prayer daily in hope of HIS Grace, we are forgiven.

ATTN:Fred Ask yourself, Do we believed we can be conformed to Christ image of righteousness by walking in the spirit? OFF Thread..

[classyT]

Snd,

I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin... unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it... the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin... we decieve ourselves!

[sndbay]

Snd,

I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin....unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it...the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin...we decieve ourselves!

ClassyT,

This question that you ask is what we are discussing on another thread. When we Walk in the Spirit rather then in our flesh.

The book of 1 Peter speaks about being born again or begotten again. The soul is purified in obeying the truth through the Spirit, And the book of (Romans 8:29-30 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. )

God quicken your mortal body by HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you. This is the adoption in being a child of God. (Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. )

What we follow is the Law of Liberty, because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. )

Please join us on the other thread..Having the Sppirit of Christ Jesus

[arcura]

sndbay,
I, a sinner, try to walk with Jesus Christ as His immediate followers did and they were all sinners.
I hope that you get my point.
I believe that Jesus forgives me AS I forgive others.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

I do understand what you are speaking Fred.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


Awareness

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Thanks
Fred