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michealb · Oct 3, 2008, 11:53 AM

Again just because you don't know something doesn't mean god did it. There have been many things in history that man has attributed to god and never have we found that yes indeed god is doing that.

wildandblue · Oct 3, 2008, 11:53 AM

"God is watching us from a distance"
Actually they are waterproof and leathery just like a second skin.
God didn't create us to be little robots but gave us our own minds. No one is forced to sin but just like they say, only the good die young

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 11:57 AM

Well then, I'll live forever. ;)

I don't want to dispute the existence of God, frankly I do believe, but I still question. Will I ever "know" with 100% certainty that He exists? I don't think so. I wish I could be that certain, I'm not.

I believe because of personal experiences, but they could just as easily be attributed to lack of sleep, PMS, too much beer, not enough beer etc.

No proof for God exists, bottom line.

Now, proof of fig leaves, that's a no brainer. ;)

wildandblue · Oct 3, 2008, 12:01 PM

Yes the beer or not to beer decision, much more important.

sassyT · Oct 3, 2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

But you knowing god doesn't mean he exists. So it is still a belief that you know god. I can say I know the tooth fairy but without being able to prove it, it makes it a belief.

Michealb, the difference between you and me is that I KNOW God exists, and you Don't Know whether God exists or not. So just because you have not come to the knowledge of God's existence, does not mean he does not exist. God has always been, is now, and always will be whether you know it or not.
I know my brother Tim and I know he exists, you don't know Him and you don't know whether he exists or not. Your not knowing him has no relavance to his existence. If you wanted to know my brother Tim you could seek and find him and come to know him, but as I would imagine you have no interest in that just like you have no interest in knowing God and that is the main reason why don't know God exists.

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 12:17 PM

Sassy, your examples of proof aren't realistic.

If you say you have a brother, then what reason do we have to not believe your word? The possibility that you have a brother is realistic, many people have brothers, many of those brothers are named Tim, we have no reason to question your claim of a brother.

To say that you know God exists, well, that requires different proof. Not everyone believes in God, because there is no proof of His existence, unlike your brother Tim.

If anyone wanted to meet your brother Tim, that would be fairly easy, but God, not really.

DrJ · Oct 3, 2008, 12:17 PM

(sighs ) :rolleyes:

And this, too, shall pass away

(I think this shall by my new quote for now)

michealb · Oct 3, 2008, 12:26 PM

The difference is again that on demand (if true) you can produce evidence for your brother's existence. I also have existing knowledge of other people having brothers. So your claim has some merit right there because I already know it is possible to have a brother. You can not do so with god. Even if you tell me exactly how to look for god. I won't find evidence for his existence.
I can say I know the tooth fairy and the only reason that you don't know the tooth fairy is because you don't have an interest in knowing the tooth fairy. If I can subsitude big foot, aliens, ghosts or the tooth fairy for the word god in your evidence and it makes just as much sense, your evidence is meaningless.

sassyT · Oct 3, 2008, 12:26 PM

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I don't need proof of something that simple. I'm sure you eat, otherwise you wouldn't survive. Eating is something every live human does, therefore it's a fact.

Its not about just eating "something" , I mentioned very specific things I ate.
Yes this is a simple analogy but it can be applied anywhere. I KNOW for a fact that I ate 2eggs bacon etc.. On the 18th of Aug at 10am. I have absolutely no way of proving that but the fact still remains that I know what I ate on that day. So I am simply trying to illustrate that just because I can not prove God to the world, does not mean that I personly do not know he exists. I know He exists, regardless of whether I can prove it or not.

God is not as easily proven to be fact, not everyone believes in God, because there is no actual proof.

Again :rolleyes:, I am did not say anything about proving God. I am just saying my inability to prove Him to the world does not mean I don't know he exists.

sassyT · Oct 3, 2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

Again just because you don't know something doesn't mean god did it. There have been many things in history that man has attributed to god and never have we found that yes indeed god is doing that.

Can you be more specific?

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 12:35 PM

Sassy, I think you're missing the point.

I don't have to believe that you had eggs and bacon that day, it's a logical conclusion that what you claim could be the truth. Eggs exist, so does bacon, and pancakes. Logically, you could have had those food items on that day, therefore I have to reason to question your claim.

I could post pictures that people claim are bigfoot. Do you believe in Bigfoot? There are pictures, people say they've seen him. So, do you believe, after all, there's more proof of Bigfoots existence then there is of God's.

You can "think" that God is fact, but in order for anyone of us to admit that He is indeed fact, would require proof.

And round and round we go. :(

DrJ · Oct 3, 2008, 12:40 PM

Tastes Great!

Less Filling!

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 12:42 PM

Hakuna Matata. :)

DrJ · Oct 3, 2008, 12:49 PM

Put your behind in your pants...

Er wait...

Put your past behind you

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 12:53 PM

No worries. ;)

Oops, off topic. Bad Alty, bad, bad, bad.

We now return you to our regular scheduled program.

Sorry. :(

DrJ · Oct 3, 2008, 01:12 PM

Really? Can't we just change the channel?

Oh OK...

The real issue here is that for many Christians, if they admit that they cannot technically "know" that God exists, they feel that they will influence the validity of their belief and therefore, be viewed as "less" of a Christian.

These are typically the same Christians that use quotes from the Bible to prove His existence...

Or answer intelligent questions with Religious Dogma...

Or go to church every Sunday so the neighborhood doesn't gossip about why they are NOT there...

Or are really only a Christian out of the fear of burning for eternity in Hell rather than for the right reasons.

I once posed a question that no Christians would even attempt to answer:

If the Bible instructed us to worship God and by doing so, we would all burn in Hell for all Eternity... It would go on to explain that this would be the ultimate way to show ones true love for God... a tragic end but for those that still worshiped Him, He would know they worshiped Him for the right reasons... if this were the case, how many Christians would have EVER become Christians?

Would they still claim to KNOW that He exist if these were His conditions?

sassyT · Oct 3, 2008, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Sassy, your examples of proof aren't realistic.

Again (sigh) :rolleyes:, I am not trying to prove God.

If you say you have a brother, then what reason do we have to not believe your word? The possibility that you have a brother is realistic, many people have brothers, many of those brothers are named Tim, we have no reason to question your claim of a brother.

I could say the same thing about God. What reason do people have to not believe God exists? The possibility that God exists is realistic, many people know Him, many people talk to him everyday, you have no reason to question my claim that I know God.
I am just using an analogy if

To say that you know God exists, well, that requires different proof. Not everyone believes in God, because there is no proof of His existence, unlike your brother Tim.

I do not have to be able to prove God to the rest of the world to Know He exists. That does not make sense. That goes back to my breakfast analogy. I do not have to be able to prove to the world what I had for breakfast on the 18th to KNOW what I ate on that day.

If anyone wanted to meet your brother Tim, that would be fairly easy, but God, not really

Actually I think meeting God would be easier than trying to track my brother down because at least God will come to you if you sincerely seek Him.

wildandblue · Oct 3, 2008, 01:24 PM

No sassy is taking her parents word for it that that is her brother, whose father is taking her mothers word for it that that is his son, maybe dna could prove it but I don't think dna can prove siblinghood, or even if they took the wrong baby home from the hospital, or adopted him or her and are not telling. So on back to Adam in OUR tale all of which is tediously set out in the Old Testament . Like a chicken is just an eggs way of making another egg. Or if a seed falls to the ground and dies, and is reborn as something greater than it was . Why are plants and even butterflies so much more complicated than us?

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 01:30 PM

I give up, really I do.

Okay Sassy, you have a brother named Tim, you ate eggs and bacon, and to you God is a fact.

To me God is a belief, that's all.

Peace. :)

sassyT · Oct 3, 2008, 01:32 PM

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Altenweg

You can "think" that God is fact, but in order for anyone of us to admit that He is indeed fact, would require proof.

And again, this is where you are missing the point. I did not say God was a fact niether did I say I want you to admit that he is indeed fact. All I am saying, again is that I know God exists and I realise there are people out there who don't know He exists.