[achampio21]

[

1.Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

There is no evidence for MACRO evolution, there is however evidence for MICRO evolution. so those who believe Macro to be truth dispite lack of evidence have Faith.

Don't know anything about micro or macro anything. Unless microwaves and mac and cheese count? :D

[sassyT]

I BELIEVE in God. But I think that "evolution" may have poss occurred throughout our history.

Thank you for apology. That was nice.

Do you really not think we evolved at all?

I believe animals as well as Humans do evolve, but only within the same kind (micro evolution). For example a wolf and a dog evolved from the same canine ancestor. However I do not believe, as Darwinistss insist, that a wolf like creature evolved into a dolphin or a whale. I am yet to see irrefutable evidence for that.

[inthebox]

Ok : I'll explain it once more on your level ....

"[I][B]The smarter humanity gets through evolution, the bigger influence that will have on future developments.

You did not answer the question.

What is the role of school when those who believe in evolution can "get smarter" - via a chance "beneficial mutation" that gives them doctorate level genes... :D...

Because that is the theory is it not? The passing down of "beneficial" chance gene mutations that gives a naturally selected reproductive advantage...

Or do humans "get smarter" by going to school and learning to become more intelligent rather than wait for some naturally selected mutation.


So much is falsely attributed to evolution, that some cannot recognize the intelligence and design that humans possess, as actively demonstrated by science.

[sassyT]

You did not answer the question.

What is the role of school when those who believe in evolution can "get smarter" - via a chance "beneficial mutation" that gives them doctorate level genes....:D ....

because that is the theory is it not? The passing down of "beneficial" chance gene mutations that gives a naturally selected reproductive advantage....

Or do humans "get smarter" by going to school and learning to become more intelligent rather than wait for some naturally selected mutation.


So much is falsely attributed to evolution, that some cannot recognize the intelligence and design that humans possess, as actively demonstrated by science.

You are so right Inthebox. I think it takes more faith to believe in Darwinst claims than it does to believe in aliens. Maybe Credo did'nt attend school because he was hoping he would gain more knowledge and intelligents through natural selection. :D

[Credendovidis]

You are so right Inthebox. I think it takes more faith to believe in Darwinst claims than it does to believe in aliens. Maybe Credo did'nt attend school because he was hoping he would gain more knowledge and intelligents through natural selection.

Darwinst - did'nt - intelligents... who didn't attend school??

:D :D :D :D :D :D

·

[sassyT]

Darwinst - did'nt - intelligents .... who didn't attend school ???


·

Lol.. I never claimed to be an english major, just a biology major with admittedly horrible spelling skills. :( You on the other hand seem to be relying on "natural selection" to gain knowledge because most of the communication we have seen from you is based on your ignorance of many subject matters.

[lobrobster]

You did not answer the question.

What is the role of school when those who believe in evolution can "get smarter" - via a chance "beneficial mutation" that gives them doctorate level genes....:D ....

because that is the theory is it not? The passing down of "beneficial" chance gene mutations that gives a naturally selected reproductive advantage....

Or do humans "get smarter" by going to school and learning to become more intelligent rather than wait for some naturally selected mutation.


So much is falsely attributed to evolution, that some cannot recognize the intelligence and design that humans possess, as actively demonstrated by science.

My god. You're lack of understanding about this subject is astounding. Seriously... Read some books on evolution before embarrassing yourself like this.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I hope you're around in 20-30 years when those who don't accept evolution will be held to the same intellectual standing as 'flat earthers' are today.

[sassyT]

[QUOTE]

My god. You're lack of understanding about this subject is astounding. Seriously... Read some books on evolution before embarrassing yourself like this.

I think Inthebox has asked a valid question here. If the driving force for Macro evolution is natural selection for what purpose did us humans develop specialised qualities such as interlect, reasoning ability etc..
Out of the thousands upon thousands of species that have ever lived, how come humans are the only species that has developed these highly specialised qualities?
Also, I have always been curious, why did we humans even lose our tail?? I think humans would put a tail to good use. For example now, I could use a tail to drink my cup of tea while I type.. hehe..

I'm not sure how old you are, but I hope you're around in 20-30 years when those who don't accept evolution will be held to the same intellectual standing as 'flat earthers' are today.

So you hope, but like many theories that have come and gone before so will this mythical theory that Humans and banana trees are distant cousins. :rolleyes:

[inthebox]

Lob:

what is your personal definition of evolution?

of natural selection?

My question to Cred, who states humanity gets smarter through evolution, is how?

I state that people get smarter learning and going to school. This has nothing to do with evolution - in the strict biological sense.

In lay terms people use evolution to mean development or advancement or simply change. That is not the definition of biological evolution.

For example, if a car magazine states BMW's new 3 series is not a brand new model, but an "evolution" from the previous generation, evolution means development. It is engineers using their intelligence purposefully that made these developments possible, not some random chance genetic mutation.

Do you understand?

as to my resume, Bachelors in Biology '86, doctorate '91. Health professional. Saved by the grace of God '05. 40s. ;)

and you? :)

[tsila1777]

Oh Cred, here you are. I thought you had other things to do with your life or some such thing as that. :confused:

Sassyt you go! Cred can't even hold a candle to you. You make perfect sense in your debates, even I can understand some of it.. you are obviously well studied and educated or else you just have great genes.:)

[tsila1777]

Inthebox, wow I'm impressed. And I can't wait to see Cred's answer.

Saved by the grace of God 1981 I'm not telling my age though.

[lobrobster]

[QUOTE=sassyT]

I think Inthebox has asked a valid question here. If the driving force for Macro evolution is natural selection for what purpose did us humans develop specialised qualities such as interlect, reasoning ability etc..

It is thought that our intelligence really took off after we became bipedal. With our hands now free, our brains grew to devise ever more creative and useful ways for carrying things and tool making, etc. Here's one huge misunderstanding about intelligence and evolution...

Intelligence is not something that every animal is necessarily striving for. If you are a gazelle in the open plains of Africa and being stalked by a pride of lions, you would gladly trade any amount of intelligence for speed and agility. So intelligence isn't always the most optimal or efficient way to go. And one reason for this is because...

We humans pay a very high price for our intelligence. Mainly, that we are born so premature. No other animal can afford to spend as much time as we do learning how to walk and feed itself. Due to our big craniums, a human female could never give birth to an infant mature and large enough to be walking and fending for itself in a matter of days or weeks. This means we have a very long childhood. No other animal can afford to fend for their young for such a long period. So again, intelligence is not something that every animal is striving for. It just so happens it is the evolutionary route we humans took and it worked out well for us. Unless of course, we end up blowing ourselves up through technology, or destroying our planet, both of which are very real possibilities.

Also, I have always been curious, why did we humans even lose our tail?? I think humans would put a tail to good use. For example now, I could use a tail to drink my cup of tea while I type.. hehe..

Tails are mostly used for balance, although some types of monkeys do use them to grasp and carrying things. It's important to remember that everything in evolution comes with an inherent benefit and cost. Obviously, the cost of keeping tails outweighed the benefit for us.

So you hope, but like many theories that have come and gone before so will this mythical theory that Humans and banana trees are distant cousins. :rolleyes:

I don't need to hope Sassy. It is already as much of a fact as relative theory is a fact. I'm sure YOU genuinely hope and pray that evolutionary theory will someday be debunked once and for all, so you don't have to come up with new ways to explain your religious book (lord knows it's already been revised enough times to accommodate science). But don't worry... Your god is safe. There will always be an antecedent event you can attribute to god. Again, evolution says nothing about whether god exists. You can always say god started the whole process in motion. We don't yet know how life got started, but even if and when we do, we don't know how the universe got started, but if and when we do... You get my point. You will always be able to find something prior to our current knowledge and claim, 'god did it'.

[lobrobster]

[QUOTE=inthebox]Lob:

I state that people get smarter learning and going to school. This has nothing to do with evolution - in the strict biological sense.

You are correct that learning different facts (education), has little to do with evolution. It is our capacity to learn those facts that comes through evolution.

as to my resume, Bachelors in Biology '86, doctorate '91. Health professional. Saved by the grace of God '05. 40s. ;)

Serious question and I mean NO disrespect whatsoever, but... How on earth can you have a Bachelors in biology and confuse the very simple distinction between learning a series of facts and/or knowledge acquired from school, with the developmental capacity for intelligence?! Do you honestly think we 'learn' intelligence in schools? C'mon... As for your other comments, see my response to Sassy.

So you were saved by the grace of god 3 years ago? I'd be genuinely interested in your experience if you want to PM me. I am not here to make fun of believers, but to stick up for science and education. It actually scares me that so many people in the U.S. don't accept commonplace science.

Peace.

[sassyT]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=lobrobster]

It is thought that our intelligence really took off after we became bipedal. With our hands now free, our brains grew to devise ever more creative and useful ways for carrying things and tool making, etc. Here's one huge misunderstanding about intelligence and evolution...

Intelligence is not something that every animal is necessarily striving for. If you are a gazelle in the open plains of Africa and being stalked by a pride of lions, you would gladly trade any amount of intelligence for speed and agility. So intelligence isn't always the most optimal or efficient way to go. And one reason for this is because...

We humans pay a very high price for our intelligence. Mainly, that we are born so premature. No other animal can afford to spend as much time as we do learning how to walk and feed itself. Due to our big craniums, a human female could never give birth to an infant mature and large enough to be walking and fending for itself in a matter of days or weeks. This means we have a very long childhood. No other animal can afford to fend for their young for such a long period. So again, intelligence is not something that every animal is striving for. It just so happens it is the evolutionary route we humans took and it worked out well for us. Unless of course, we end up blowing ourselves up through technology, or destroying our planet, both of which are very real possibilities.

Unfortunately this does not answere the question as to WHY out of the hundreds of thousands of species only one (humans) was able to "free its hands" and as a result develop cognition.
Also what has freeing of hands have to do with developing a sense of awareness, phylosophy, ability to reason and question one's existence, morality, speech etc??

Tails are mostly used for balance, although some types of monkeys do use them to grasp and carrying things. It's important to remember that everything in evolution comes with an inherent benefit and cost. Obviously, the cost of keeping tails outweighed the benefit for us.

What are the costs? I think the benefits of a tail would outweigh the cost! Just think how much multi taking we could do.

I don't need to hope Sassy. It is already as much of a fact as relative theory is a fact

This is you belief because I am yet to see evidence that would qualify Macro evolution as fact.

I'm sure YOU genuinely hope and pray that evolutionary theory will someday be debunked once and for all, so you don't have to come up with new ways to explain your religious book (lord knows it's already been revised enough times to accommodate science????).

Lol no, I don't even waist my time praying about things like this because I know there will always be athiestic Zealots like you who want to hold on to this tattered theory because the alternative (creation) is unacceptable to your doctrine that there is no god.

But don't worry... Your god is safe. There will always be an antecedent event you can attribute to god. Again, evolution says nothing about whether or not god exists. You can always say god started the whole process in motion. We don't yet know how life got started, but even if and when we do, we don't know how the universe got started, but if and when we do... You get my point. You will always be able to find something prior to our current knowledge and claim, 'god did it'.

Exactly so I am failing to understand why you keep insisting that my disbelief in the theory is because of my religious beliefs. :confused:

[sassyT]

[QUOTE]

Oh Cred, here you are. I thought you had other things to do with your life or some such thing as that. :confused:

Apperantly he doesn't have much of a life off line. Only lord knows how many other religious forums out there he is terrorising and harassing.

Sassyt you go! Cred can't even hold a candle to you. You make perfect sense in your debates, even I can understand some of it.. you are obviously well studied and educated or else you just have great genes.:)

Thank you! The sooner Credo realises this the sooner he will give up and just come to terms with the fact that he has beliefs like everyone else. :rolleyes:

[inthebox]

You are correct that learning different facts (education), has little to do with evolution. It is our capacity to learn those facts that comes through evolution.



Serious question and I mean NO disrespect whatsoever, but... How on earth can you have a Bachelors in biology and confuse the very simple distinction between learning a series of facts and/or knowledge acquired from school, with the developmental capacity for intelligence?!! Do you honestly think we 'learn' intelligence in schools? C'mon... As for your other comments, see my response to Sassy.

So you were saved by the grace of god 3 years ago? I'd be genuinely interested in your experience if you want to PM me. I am not here to make fun of believers, but to stick up for science and education. It actually scares me that so many people in the U.S. don't accept commonplace science.

Peace.

I will go back to the simple statement by Cred that humanity gets smarter through evolution.

You are stating that the capacity for intelligence is evolution. A different proposition, which I won't get into at this time.

I would like to know if either you or Cred has attended a college or grad school?

It has been awhile for me, but I do not believe that Harvard or your local community college is going to accept you by stating "evolution has made me smart enough to be in your school ":)

Ask any doctor, lawyer, engineer, if they got into their professional school based because they got smarter through evolution :) :confused:


If one wants to reduce life to chance mutation and natural selection, and attribute all of life's wonders to a process that's only real principle is survival so be it...

As for me, all praise and glory belongs to God :D


In '05, by the world's standard I was "good," I think I have been more "good" than "bad" so I did not worry. But what I had done was brought to light, and I realized I was a sinner, a sinner in need of help, and in that moment I asked for God's mercy and forgiveness, and it was already granted. :D

[lobrobster]

I will go back to the simple statement by Cred that humanity gets smarter through evolution.

I'm not familiar with what Cred said, so I don't want to speak for him. I am only responding to what YOU said.

You are stating that the capacity for intelligence is evolution. A different proposition, which I won't get into at this time.

No, it is not a different proposition. We have developed a higher intelligence (brain capacity), through evolution and natural selection. What you seem to be defining as 'smarter', is individual knowledge or one's ability to perform on SAT tests. This has NOTHING to do with our species' overall intellectual acuity!

I would like to know if either you or Cred has attended a college or grad school?

Again, I'm not going to speak for Cred. I have an MBA from Northwestern U. focusing in business economics and finance. Before I switched majors, I took a biology course as an undergrad. I don't claim to be a scientist, but I find your inability to differentiate between 'learned knowledge' and intellectual capacity in an evolutionary role, to be embarrassing for someone who has ever taken a course that had any Theory of Evolution as part of the syllabus.

There are varying degrees of human intelligence, but even the dumbest human is still miles ahead of the next most intelligent organism known to man. Your point about colleges accepting applicants based on evolutionary 'smarts' is ridiculous and pure folly.

[Credendovidis]

sassyT to tsila1777 :

Apperantly he doesnt have much of a life off line. Only lord knows how many other religious forums out there he is terrorising and harrassing.

thank you! the sooner Credo realises this the sooner he will give up and just come to terms with the fact that he has beliefs like everyone else.

"Apperantly, doesnt, terrorising, harrassing, realises".

Of course I have beliefs. But none of these is related to religion !

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

·

[inthebox]

It is thought that our intelligence really took off after we became bipedal. With our hands now free, our brains grew to devise ever more creative and useful ways for carrying things and tool making, etc.

That is quite a statement without any fact to back it up - just your statement.
Where is the research that proves that bipedalism, the origin of which is not known, caused brain development?

Intelligence is not something that every animal is necessarily striving for. If you are a gazelle in the open plains of Africa and being stalked by a pride of lions, you would gladly trade any amount of intelligence for speed and agility. So intelligence isn't always the most optimal or efficient way to go. And one reason for this is because...

What is the selective advantage of incrementlly, over hundreds if not thousands of generations, "getting smarter" bit by bit?

If other animal species are so much older than us, for example sharks, why did evolution not make them more intellligent?

Why humans?

Why not even primates?

What gene mutations led to our intelligence?

We humans pay a very high price for our intelligence. Mainly, that we are born so premature. No other animal can afford to spend as much time as we do learning how to walk and feed itself. Due to our big craniums, a human female could never give birth to an infant mature and large enough to be walking and fending for itself in a matter of days or weeks. This means we have a very long childhood. No other animal can afford to fend for their young for such a long period of time. So again, intelligence is not something that every animal is striving for. It just so happens it is the evolutionary route we humans took and it worked out well for us. Unless of course, we end up blowing ourselves up through technology, or destroying our planet, both of which are very real possibilities.

Again, where is your proof that evolution caused humans to be intelligent?

Tails are mostly used for balance, although some types of monkeys do use them to grasp and carrying things. It's important to remember that everything in evolution comes with an inherent benefit and cost. Obviously, the cost of keeping tails outweighed the benefit for us.

tail = coccyx - provides the anchor point for our pelvic muscles so that when we laugh or stand or cough our pelvic contents don't prolapse [ or fall out ] ---- indeed a very useful function and benefit.


You will notice that I make no mention of religion. I just point out the facts. :D

[inthebox]

We have developed a higher intelligence (brain capacity), through evolution and natural selection. What you seem to be defining as 'smarter', is individual knowledge or one's ability to perform on SAT tests. This has NOTHING to do with our species' overall intellectual acuity!


I have an MBA from Northwestern U. focusing in business economics and finance. Before I switched majors, I took a biology course as an undergrad. I don't claim to be a scientist, but I find your inability to differentiate between 'learned knowledge' and intellectual capacity in an evolutionary role, to be embarrassing for someone who has ever taken a course that had any Theory of Evolution as part of the syllabus.

So you took a biology course [ singular ] which was "Theory of Evolution."

You are mighty impressionable. ;)

Take anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, cell biology, genetics, molecular biology and learn the wonders of life, and ask yourself how it all came about!