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Throwback24 · Aug 8, 2008, 07:17 PM

I had a few run ins with the law when I was 16. Mostly Theft Unders and Failure to complies. I ended up going to court for these charges and got into Alternative measures. Most of my charges were dropped as a result of the cops failing to appear. As for the rest of the charges, I was granted a conditional discharge with 1 year probation, community hours, an apology letter and essay for the judge, as well restitution. I completed probation in early 2005.

I was under the impression the convictions would be erased off my record as soon as the conditions were finished. I was hired a week back and needed a security clearance for my Security job. I went for my fingerprinting today only to find out I had a criminal record. Why? I asked the officer taking my prints and she replied with, "That's how the system works. You should have thought first before committing those crimes." What's the difference between being found guilty and being granted a conditional discharge if in both cases you have to wait 5 years for your record to be closed?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why in the world I would have to wait 2 more years for my record to be sealed. I'm already 20 and it's been 3 year's since I've last went to court or even been in contact with the police.

Do I have to apply for a pardon?

excon · Aug 9, 2008, 06:41 AM

Hello Throw:

I don't know what you have to do... Oh, yes I do... Hire a lawyer.

excon

emery · Aug 11, 2008, 05:33 AM

Do you live in Ontario? If so, I believe a conditional discharge leaves your record in effect for three years and then it should be removed. I don't think you need a lawyer just try and do some more research on this yourself maybe through Pardons Canada but I am pretty sure you don't need a pardon. You may need to contact someone however once three years has passed to make sure the criminal record is removed.

Throwback24 · Aug 11, 2008, 03:10 PM

Not anymore. I moved when all my cases and conditions were finished. I honestly don't know who to contact, I asked Legal Aid and they said get a lawyer.

Fr_Chuck · Aug 11, 2008, 04:01 PM

I will tell you as a fact that on National Security background searches, even sealed or explunged records will still show up.

They will not show up for regular background searches, but if you have to get a national security background search to work for the government and/or a government contractor where a clearance is required.

It will list explunged or sealed, but it still appears for this.

Throwback24 · Aug 11, 2008, 05:15 PM

Thank you for the post. When it's sealed would I be able to cross the border or would I need a waiver?

Fr_Chuck · Aug 11, 2008, 07:14 PM

Does not show up for border from my understanding.

Banton27 · Aug 14, 2008, 09:25 AM

Google CPIC and you will learn all about conditional discharges and such, also use key words like purged , there is a lot of info that will enlighten you

JudyKayTee · Aug 14, 2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Banton27

google CPIC and you will learn all about conditional discharges and such, also use key words like purged , there is alot of info that will enlighten you

I realize you are new on the Legal Boards but please don't just post related sites or how to get to sites.

Please post the information itself, with the site if you would like to do so.

Throwback24 · Oct 9, 2008, 04:33 PM

My internet got cut off and forgot to follow up. I went to see a lawyer and he advised to apply for a pardon. What I'm confused about is why in the world would I need a Pardon if I was never found guilty of any offense? I got conditional/absolute discharges all across the board, finished probation, finished paying off my debts, wrote an essay as to why what I did was wrong as well an apology letter. I don't understand why my name is still showing up in background checks and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Everywhere I go for help wants money and I can't afford to pay them just to get some advice.

JudyKayTee · Oct 9, 2008, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Throwback24

My internet got cut off and forgot to follow up. I went to see a lawyer and he advised to apply for a pardon. What I'm confused about is why in the world would I need a Pardon if I was never found guilty of any offense? I got conditional/absolute discharges all across the board, finished probation, finished paying off my debts, wrote an essay as to why what I did was wrong as well an apology letter. I don't understand why my name is still showing up in background checks and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Everywhere I go for help wants money and I can't afford to pay them just to get some advice.

It would appear that the arrests are on your record. You would need an Attorney to remove them and it is possible they cannot be removed.

When certain background checks are run, they will always appear.

I would ask the Attorney about the pardon if you were never convicted. I don't understand how/why you were put on probation without a conviction.
"

Fr_Chuck · Oct 9, 2008, 04:54 PM

Ok, first if this is a "national security" background check, any arrest, any deal, all convictions and any sealed records all show up for them, and there is no way to get them off that record.

Also sorry but you plead guilty, so there is a conviction, your received your punishment and the only issue was that it was to be sealed to public records ( but not government security searches)

Throwback24 · Oct 9, 2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

It would appear that the arrests are on your record. You would need an Attorney to remove them and it is possible they cannot be removed.

When certain background checks are run, they will always appear.

I would ask the Attorney about the pardon if you were never convicted. I don't understand how/why you were put on probation without a conviction.
"

Probation was among the conditions I had to follow.

Man... I regret being such an idiot. I can't believe things I did @ 16 are still relevant at the age of 20 and will possibly follow me around for the rest of my life. I was under the impression that once I fulfilled my side of the bargain and stayed out of trouble for 3 years my record would automatically close. I just want to be able to pass a basic security clearance.

A couple of failure to complies
A couple of theft unders

That's literally it. Anyway, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it :(

JudyKayTee · Oct 10, 2008, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Throwback24

Probation was among the conditions I had to follow.

Man... I regret being such an idiot. I can't believe things I did @ 16 are still relevant at the age of 20 and will possibly follow me around for the rest of my life. I was under the impression that once I fulfilled my side of the bargain and stayed out of trouble for 3 years my record would automatically close. I just want to be able to pass a basic security clearance.

A couple of failure to complies
A couple of theft unders

That's literally it. Anyway, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it :(

Hate to be discouraging but they will show up on a Government check - if that's what you're asking - and may or may not on a check for a security job, depending on how closely the potential employer looks. I think the theft charge is going to be the stickler - it may very well be that no one will hire someone to work security when they have stolen in the past.

I hope you stay on the board - people who have been arrested for theft post fairly often and some are very flippant, think it's a joke, don't think the aftershock goes on forever. You could be very helpful.

Throwback24 · Oct 12, 2008, 12:04 AM

Thanks for all the help, I'll do just that. One more question if you don't mind me asking, I was thinking about applying for University and one of the courses requires co-op placement and handling money. Do you think that will be a problem? It'd be awkward telling my teacher I couldn't partake in it because, well, I'm a criminal :confused:

JudyKayTee · Oct 12, 2008, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Throwback24

Thanks for all the help, I'll do just that. One more question if you don't mind me asking, I was thinking about applying for University and one of the courses requires co-op placement and handling money. Do you think that will be a problem? It'd be awkward telling my teacher I couldn't partake in it because, well, I'm a criminal :confused:

I think you have to ask someone - if you don't I see this could be uncomfortable if there's a problem, if someone runs a background check now or later.

And I'll bet you're not the only one in your shoes.

Throwback24 · Oct 15, 2008, 03:33 PM

What is the difference between getting your record expunged and applying for a pardon? Do they serve the same purpose? I haven't the term expunged being used in Canada but everyone I've talked to told me I could get my record expunged by hiring a lawyer, I just finished talking to one and he told me to apply for a pardon. Argh.

Fr_Chuck · Oct 15, 2008, 03:38 PM

You get your record explunged, normally if you wait about 10 years afterwards and have not had any other problems, show you had steady work and did something with your life basically. You then go back to the same court where you were convicted ( plead guilty) and ask that judge to explunge the record, Then it will not be open to the public, but only open to national security or the police.

A pardon clears your record, but actually still shows up for national security, but is a lot harder to get.

excon · Oct 15, 2008, 03:41 PM

Hello again, throw:

A pardon acts like the conviction NEVER happened. An expungement, on the other hand, just hides it from view. However, the cops can see an expunged record and it WILL be used against you by the authorities.

A pardon is probably harder to get because it's more effective. But, it all depends on your state laws, and the effectiveness of your lawyer.

excon

Throwback24 · Oct 15, 2008, 05:56 PM

I finally realized why my criminal record is still open, you guys were right lol. I did plead guilty to a theft under charge and was sentenced to one year probation. All of my other charges were either conditional/absolute discharges. When I apply for a Pardon that masks my one charge, not those that were discharged correct?

I'll get around to telling this to a lawyer sometime soon. One more question, without the use of a lawyer how would I find out how much time passed since my last conviction?

Thank you all.