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    pjl153's Avatar
    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jan 17, 2012, 08:43 AM
    Ground wire shock
    I have 3 circuits in my panel and the grounds are twisted together. When I removed that braided ground from the ground strip it causes a spark and I got a shock touching the wire and the box. I tried another ground wire from another circuit and that did not shock or spark. My question is there a problem in one of the 3 circuits where the ground is braided? Can I put a volt meter between the ground braid and the ground bar and turn of 1 of the 3 breakers at a time and find the one that is causing a problem? Can this be someone wired a outlet (or other) switching the black and white wire?
    Any suggestions?
    Phil
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #2

    Jan 17, 2012, 09:58 AM
    I would turn the breakers off 1 by 1 to see which 1 or more is leaking to ground.
    Leave the breaker(s) off and see what is on that circuit, lights, fans, recepticles. Could be anyone of them.
    Unplug items plugged into the recepticles, and turn off any switches, then look for the voltage on the ground, worse case you will need to open boxes and connections to further isolate.
    Be careful, Good Luck.
    pjl153's Avatar
    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jan 21, 2012, 06:34 AM
    I found one circuit that has 52 volts between the ground wire and the ground bar. I unplugged everything on that circuit and turned off the lights. No change. What do I look for next?
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #4

    Jan 21, 2012, 07:01 AM
    If you can work safely at the Panel and with Electric, You could Turn off that Breaker/Circuit. And Place a Continuity tester between the hot and ground, and start disconnecting until the Beeping/buzzer/light/Meter show an open connection between the hot and ground. Also turn off any lights, fans etc, and unplug anything in the recepticles. Could be something plugged into the circuit, not necessarily the wiring itself.
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    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jan 21, 2012, 07:06 AM
    If it's not what is plugged into the outlets what in the outlet box could it be? What should I look for?
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    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #6

    Jan 21, 2012, 07:57 AM
    I would open related switch boxes, light/fan/smoke detector boxes and separate the hots, if the continuity is removed, it is downline from that connection.
    A screw or nail can puncture the hot and short to ground, any recent work?

    I Take it you separated the grounds at the panel to determine which of the 3 circuits has the Problem.
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #7

    Jan 21, 2012, 08:09 AM
    I have 3 circuits in my panel
    How is this panel being used?
    This sounds like a sub panel in a garage or a shop.

    grounds are twisted together
    Are the neutrals and grounds connected to the same buss in this panel? This sounds like a 120V sub panel in a garage with neutrals and grounds connected at neutral buss. They should not be.

    I removed that braided ground
    Was that the ground wire a the ground rod?
    Sounds like the braided ground wire between a sub panel and the main panel.

    one circuit that has 52 volts
    When you did that voltage check did you check on ground wire with the other two disconnected from the panel, or did you check one with the other two connected to the ground buss?

    If you have two circuits come together in a box, grounds of both circuits will be connected. In other words if you have two sets of lights on different circuits, and have the switch for each set in the same box, the grounds will be connected. There are other situation where the grounds of two circuits may be connected.

    If your grounds and neutrals come together a sub panel and you have poor connection in the neutral, either in the sub panel or the main panel, and you disconnect the ground between panels, then touch the ground and the box you will get shocked.
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    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jan 21, 2012, 08:32 AM
    This is in a sub panel 100 amp/220V in the other half of the cellar. The electrian who put in the new 200 amp panel did not make the 100 panel a sub meaning he left the neturals and ground connected on the same bar. I am in the process of separating the ground and neturals. That is when I found the shock problem. It is not there on all the grounds.
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    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #9

    Jan 21, 2012, 09:10 AM
    Confirm that braided ground is the ground between the sub panel and the main panel.

    If there is a break in the neutral between the sub panel and the main panel and you disconnect the ground between panels, nothing in the sub panel should work.
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    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jan 21, 2012, 10:23 AM
    No the braided ground is 6 or 7 copper ground wires twisted together and then screwed into the netural bar. I have just split the netural and grounds in the sub panel and isolated the netural. The netural from the main panel has good contact. Still get conductivity between the ground and the hot on one circuit but not enough to trip the breaker. Using a GB outlet polarity tester on all the outlets shows 2 orange LEDS meaning correct wiring at the outlet.
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #11

    Jan 21, 2012, 11:17 AM
    Do not understand. If you have 3 circuits in panel you should have 3 ground wires from those circuits, plus the ground wire to the main panel.
    Have you removed the bonding strap of the original neutral/ground buss that bonds it to the panel cabinet?

    Still get conductivity between the ground and the hot on one circuit
    Assuming that you means your meter shows voltage between hot and ground, that would be correct. Do you mean between neutral and ground?
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    pjl153 Posts: 13, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jan 21, 2012, 12:36 PM
    With the meter in series between the ground wire and the ground bar I get 50 some odd volts with the power on. With the power off I get continuity between the hot black wire and ground. I found it goes away when I unplug everything that's on that circuit. The first thing I plug in whether it is a 2 prong or 3 prong the continuity comes back between the hot and ground. Doesn't matter where in the line I plug it in 1st outlet or middle.
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #13

    Jan 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
    Please explain how you could have 5 or 6 ground wires bundled together and connected to the neutral/ground buss if you only have 3 circuits in that panel.

    Please explain how you could have only 3 circuits in that panel if it was once the main panel.

    Please state whether on not you remove the bonding strap of the original neutral/ground buss when you installed the new ground buss.

    Since the electrician did not separate the neutral and ground wires in what is now a sub panel, please check to see if the neutrals and grounds come together in the main panel. If separated, is the neutral buss bonded to the panel cabinet?

    Is the cable between the two panels 3-wire, two hots, neutral or is it 4 wire, two hots, a neutral and a ground?

    A meter will show continuity between hot and ground if the breaker is off and a light switch is on and the neutral and ground come together as they should.

    Fifty (50) volts on a ground wire sounds like an open neutral that has come together with a ground wire. If the reading is taken between the neutral and the ground it sounds like an open neutral with the ground wire properly connected. If the reading is taken between the ground and a true ground, it sounds like an open neutral that comes together with the ground wire which is not properly connected.

    Please explain exactly how you are taking your readings.

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