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    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #1

    Apr 15, 2006, 10:33 AM
    Could the Catholic Church be EVIL?
    Priest faces trial in nun’s stabbing death
    Body of 71-year-old victim was found under altar cloth 26 years ago

    Reuters
    Updated: 10:35 a.m. ET April 15, 2006


    TOLEDO, Ohio - A 68-year-old Catholic priest goes on trial Monday in the stabbing death of a nun whose body was found covered by an altar cloth in a chapel 26 years ago.

    The Rev. Gerald Robinson, charged with murder and facing a possible sentence of life in jail if convicted, has been on leave from his priestly duties since his arrest in 2004. He has pleaded not guilty.

    The crime occurred in a hospital chapel in downtown Toledo on Saturday of Easter week in 1980. Investigators said the nun, Margaret Ann Pahl, 71, was strangled and then stabbed up to 32 times.

    The investigation initially centered on Robinson, the hospital’s chaplain and a priest of the Toledo Catholic Diocese. He was not charged at the time and presided over Pahl’s funeral Mass.

    Police reopened the case in 2003 and arrested Robinson in April 2004. The cold case squad said it suspected that blood spatters left at the crime scene matched a letter opener in Robinson’s possession.

    After his arrest investigators said they believed a “ceremony” had taken place inside the chapel in conjunction with the slaying but did not elaborate. Robinson is the only one who has been charged.

    Several events led to the case being reopened. In June 2003, an unidentified woman went to the Toledo Diocese seeking reimbursement for her therapy. She presented officials there with a letter claiming she was a childhood victim of clerical sexual abuse by Robinson, according to the Toledo Blade, which obtained a copy of the letter.

    The woman claimed to be the victim of Satanic ritualistic sexual abuse perpetrated by a number of priests who were involved in a cult, the newspaper said.

    Prosecutors said they were unaware of the letter until after the woman who wrote it gave a copy to Claudia Vercellotti, a Toledo leader of the Survivors Network for those Abused by Priests.

    Vercellotti forwarded it to the Ohio attorney general’s office in September 2003, saying she thought church officials were not moving on it. The state office in turn sent the letter to Lucas County prosecutors, causing them to reopen the case in December of that year.

    Police have said they asked the diocese to voluntarily surrender all documents in Robinson’s file but only got three pages.

    In September 2004, the diocese was served with a warrant and surrendered over 100 documents. The diocese has consistently refused to discuss the case, citing a court gag order.

    Robinson has not faced any criminal charges of sexual abuse.

    Prosecutors expect the murder trial in Lucas County Circuit Court to last from three to four weeks.

    Copyright 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.

    © 2006 MSNBC.com
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    Not to offend you Catholics out there but, the church has a long and colorful history of this sort of thing and many others. I belong to no organised religion simply because I get really bad "vibes" from all of them. The thing is I believe that the Catholic Church is really a cover for evil and that Satan has his throne somewhere in the Vatican. If you look at Mexico, where people are starving, they are told to have more children since it is a blessing from GOD. Now 99 percent of Mexicans there are starving and coming to America. Why does the Catholic church turn it's back on them and not help them? At least the Mormans will give you something to eat! Carl Marx predicted that America would be a Spanish speaking country in the future... much to the delight of the Catholic church! The Catholic church is trying to populate the world with Catholics just as the Mormon church is trying to populate the world with Mormons! You may hate my opinion and even hate me personally for my opinion but I know for a fact that the leaders of these organisations are doing more harm to the world and the people of it than they are doing good. The longer they can keep us brainwashed the longer they will sit on high suppressing anything they do not want us to know and telling us anything that keeps us docile. There is only ONE TRUTH in the entire universe and that truth is inside every one of us. Until we find that and come together as a complete community on our own and for the good of all, these tyrants will keep this world just as it is today... one big mess!:mad:
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    #2

    Apr 15, 2006, 12:38 PM
    Reading the hate sites again I can see. Let me see Catholic Charities does more work, gives more food, more housing and more money than any other single group in the world. They were there at the hurricane helping but guess what, no one wanted to show them there doing more than most of the other groups.


    And Mexico is the way it is because of its government, not its religion.

    If you did not really beleve this bull I would have to laught because I guess the bigger the lie and the louder you yell it someone can fall for it.

    The catholic church while it had its share of problems and political isssues though the years, without it, there would be no bible, since they protected and made hand copies for 100's of years. It was the councils of the early church (catholic and orthodox, east and west) that made up the creeds used by all christians and even were the ones to develop the bible and decide what books went and which did not.

    Without the catholic church in history there would not be christianity today.

    The Pope, esp the last one was most likley the most devout and earnest Christian the world has seen this century.
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    #3

    Apr 15, 2006, 01:21 PM
    If it said "A 68-year-old School Teacher goes on trial Monday..." should we then ask

    Could School Teachers be Evil?
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    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #4

    Apr 15, 2006, 02:12 PM
    There's always going to be bad people in every religion or organized group of any kind. And unfortunately bad news seems to get the best press. We rarely hear about the good. I know that the Catholic Church (and in Canada at least, the Anglican Church as well), is responsible for abuse of children in the Indian Residential Schools, orphanages, etc... no one denies that. But there's lots of good people too. I grew up in foster care and went to a Catholic boarding school run by nuns, and it saved my life. Those nuns never abused me. They did a lot of good for me and the other girls at the school. They definitely weren't evil, and I think more people in the Church are like my nuns, rather than those people that make the news.
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    #5

    Apr 15, 2006, 02:33 PM
    Yes, locally in TN in the last year, we had several teacher issues, a preacher of a non catholic church, a karate teacher but none of them made even the state news, barely second page on the local news.

    But a 20 year old case for a priest seems to get national coverage. But of course there are anti catholic groups that make sure it does.
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    #6

    Apr 15, 2006, 10:46 PM
    Sweet Mary Mother of GOD! I am so sorry to offend. I am going down to the nearest Catholic church right now and get obsolved of my sins so I can start over with a clean slate. Like the Mafia hit man said, "It's nice being Catholic, you go to confessional on Sunday and start out clean on Monday."
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    #7

    Apr 15, 2006, 11:04 PM
    Rickj: "We can all agree that some things are not written to be taken as fact. I would point to many of the Proverbs to begin with..."
    I am not refurring to one "bad person" rickj, over and over there are terrible things coming from the Catholic church. How many children have been molested by priests? There is something horrible going on in that church and if you want to question my intelligence because I have the cahones to point it out then knock yourself out. The fact remains that it goes on every minute and these Catholics that puff up over my words seem to be getting puffed up about about the wrong things. I am a retired Federal prison guard and I also worked the state prison system. The worst scum I ever delt with were the baby rapers. When I hear about another priest that has violated a child I go balistic. I also know that we are not hearing about every case. So, what do the Catholic people think about the priests that are doing this and what are you doing to stop it?
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    #8

    Apr 15, 2006, 11:10 PM
    Fr Chuck, no, I'm not reading hate sites again... just the newspaper.:(
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    #9

    Apr 16, 2006, 04:38 AM
    Hi, Magprob,
    No, I don't believe any Church is evil. Some do get more Media and Newspaper coverage than others!
    You say you get "bad vibes" from all Churches, and mention Satan. Could it be Satan has you in his grips? I do not mean that to be offensive, just simply that Satan has a way of instilling thoughts which are, as you know, opposite the Will of God.
    I do believe that all Churches, not just Catholic or any particular denomination, or belief, has those who do not follow the Will of God in their everyday life. A good example is a few of the TV and Radio Ministers; rich beyond most people, who own race horses, country homes, planes, etc...
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    #10

    Apr 16, 2006, 07:03 AM
    MagProb,

    You have some real issues. It is not with the church but yourself. All I have seen from you is judging groups of people because of some bad apples. Just because there are some bad apples does not make the whole bunch bad. I have been brought up as a Roman Catholic and have had no problems whatsoever. I do not agree with the abuse that has happened. It does not mean that it happens everywhere as that it is the way it is coming off from you.

    There are teachers who sleep with their students, that is abuse. Does that mean all of the teachers are abusers?

    Many people I have heard bring this up. On the news, the white man is usually involved in rape crimes. Black man are usually involved in Murder and shooting crimes. Okay does that make White Men mostly rapists and does that make black men mostly murderers? The answer is of course no. What you are doing is lumping everybody together in a body of church and for some reason you have Labelled the whole organizing evil. Do you think it is right for judgement like that on your part? No. What do I think about the abuse, the abuse is wrong and anybody that is found completely guilty without a doubt should be punished for their wrong doing, but then again there are others who are falsly accused as well, but people like you automatically feel that all is guilty which is a warped way of thinking of it.

    P.S. My Wife and I had a very bad experience with a young punk cop threatening us and punching the car. He was very bad, did not do anything wrong. He was a crooked cop. Does that make all Cops bad. The answer again is NO.

    Joe
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    #11

    Apr 16, 2006, 09:25 AM
    Perfect! After this story about the priest that murdered the nun ran, the pope made a statement that we (everyone else) are all evil due to the television and the media we watch. Sex is everywhere and we are all a bunch of fiends. In other words, shifting the blame away from the church and on to the accusers. Kind of like you are doing to me now. But that's OK... that is the answer I was anticipating when I posted this article. You Catholics have not let me down! You have been taught by the best! I am now through with this thread as it will only turn into a crusade from here on out. Goodbye.:D
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    #12

    Apr 16, 2006, 11:10 PM
    The following applies to all religious organizations. An organization can be considered evil if it officially approves of evil behavior. By evil behavior is meant behavior which is today universally considered a crime against humanity and which is universally condemned by the society of nations. If some of the organization's members, or even the majority, choose to go against an organization's rightious policies, then the members themselves are evil and not the organization which disapproves of their behavior.

    For example, if a religious organization should officially condone evil, or else wink at it or ignore it, then it certainly cannot be considered a good organization. But this in no way reflects upon its members who might see the official policy as contrary to God's will or else follow an organization's guidance due to ignorance. In short, come Judgment Day, the organization itself might come under God's wrath while many of its members might be blessed.

    Daniel 7:10
    A stream of fire issuedand came out from before him;a thousand thousands served him,and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;the court sat in judgment,and the books were opened.


    Revelation 20:12
    And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
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    #13

    Apr 17, 2006, 07:10 AM
    It is so easy to read the bad news but so hard to find the good news. Unfortunately it is so easy to paint people and places with a broad brush and lump everything in a convenient little niche to explain why something is so bad. This is not truth but just another form of ignorance and an example of taking the easy way out and not having to find the truth. Why is it that people look at the bad things that happen in life and refuse to acknowledge all the hard work and effort that goes into good works by people who never make the evening news or the front pages. Hopefully we will not only know that bad things happen but also a lot of good goes on if we open our eyes and see the whole picture:cool: :)
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    #14

    Apr 17, 2006, 07:22 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by magprob
    over and over there are terrible things coming from the Catholic church.
    Name one, then. You have only named one from an evil member of the Church.

    Quote Originally Posted by magprob
    How many children have been molested by priests?
    Good question. How many, magprob? And what is the percentage of children molested by Catholic Priests to all children who have been molested??

    I say that parents and family are the biggest percentage. So following your logic, Parenthood Is Evil!

    Quote Originally Posted by magprob
    There is something horrible going on in that church and if you want to question my intelligence because I have the cahones to point it out then knock yourself out.
    I do not question your intellegence, just your logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by magprob
    So, what do the Catholic people think about the priests that are doing this and what are you doing to stop it?
    I think it is horrible, and think that any person who mollests a child should be punished with the maximum sentence.
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    #15

    Apr 27, 2006, 09:54 AM
    One of three shepherd children who turned the town of Fatima into a pilgrimage site after telling of her visions of the Lady of Fatima in 1917 (the year of the Russian revolution), Sister Lucy dos Santos died in February 2005, just before Pope John Paul II did. The three prophecies she received became known as "The Three Secrets of Fatima", and the last of those secrets is, according to recently emerging reports, that Satan himself would soon take over the Vatican.

    Vatican insider Malachi Martin also insisted that Satan was taking over the Vatican. From 1958 until 1964, Father Martin served in Rome where he was a close associate of Cardinal Augustin Bea and Popes John XXIII and Paul VI. Martin believed that the Vatican had finally been, after centuries-long efforts, infiltrated at the highest levels by Satanists.


    "Anybody who is acquainted with the state of affairs in the Vatican
    in the last 35 years is well aware that the prince of darkness has had
    and still has his surrogates in the court of St. Peter in Rome"
    - Father Malachi Martin, in The Fatima Crusader
    In his books, Martin described a ceremony called "The Enthronement of the Fallen Archangel Lucifer" held in the Vatican on June 29, 1963. Martin never recanted his claim that this Satanic ritual occurred in the Vatican, repeatedly insisting that the ceremony did occur and that a general Satanic conspiracy exists within the Vatican. Martin continued to speak out about these things until his death in 1999, doing numerous newspaper and radio interviews (such as "The New American", the "Steel on Steel" radio show, and "The Art Bell Show").

    Martin quoted Pope Paul VI as bemoaning that "the smoke of Satan has entered the Sanctuary". Martin correctly predicted, long before the American priest scandal erupted, that reports of pedophilia rites and practices would dramatically increase among Catholic clergy because, in his words, "The cultic acts of satanic pedophilia are considered by professionals to be the culmination of the Fallen rites." (Keys of This Blood, Fr. Malachi Martin, p. 632). Since Martin's prescient warnings, tens of thousands of children have reported being raped at Catholic altars and inside Catholic confessionals, forcing the Church to pay out billions of dollars to settle court cases involving child sexual abuse by priests. In the Boston Archdiocese alone 65 parishes had to close in order to raise the money necessary to pay these court settlements. One case alone involved more than 500 child victims and a mandated court settlement of over $85 million dollars. Martin foresaw all this occurring long before it appeared in our newspapers, but his central message, that these acts are warning sign that Satanists are commandeering the church, has been ignored. His 1976 book on exorcism, Hostage to the Devil, leaves no doubt that Martin believed that the devil existed and was gaining strength in the world.
    Peter Novak
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    #16

    Apr 27, 2006, 10:02 AM
    Going back to the original idea of the thread, it appears the case has some problems, news today, the DNA found at the scene does not match the priest, the "blood " on the letter opener could not be matched to the crime.

    There appears to be basically no real evidence against the priest that the news could report on. In fact the evidence produced so far basically shows the priest should never have been charged. But of course hatred toward catholic priests could hurt him with the jury.

    Sadly everyone had this priest convicted prior to any evidence
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    #17

    Apr 27, 2006, 10:05 AM
    Reality Check:

    In 1965, Mr. Martin received a dispensation from all privileges and obligations deriving from his vows as a Jesuit and from priestly ordination." [Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, 25 June 1997, Prot. N. 04300/65].

    Martin was a disgruntled Catholic.
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    #18

    Apr 27, 2006, 10:21 AM
    Or were the Catholics disgruntled with Martin?
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    #19

    Apr 27, 2006, 10:37 AM
    Certainly both... but you know how things like that go. If a person with authority in any group starts disparaging the group publicly, then the group gets ticked off.

    Bottom line, though. All talk and no evidence.
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    #20

    Apr 27, 2006, 11:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by rickj
    Certainly both...but you know how things like that go. If a person with authority in any group starts disparaging the group publicly, then the group gets ticked off.

    Bottom line, though. All talk and no evidence.
    And doesn't that go both ways? Even if it is as obvious as the nose on your face. Denial is the path of least resistance.

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