[hvacservicetech_07]

I thought the same thing, must be a Canadian thing?

[Allheart]

I hope that you all feel it is okay for me to pipe in on this discussion even though I am from canada, but what goes on in america. Our next door neighbour effects us here in Canada, effects what happens around the world. So it is important for all of us to speak up and say what we feel. Also all my fathers side of the family are americans and currently live in the states.
I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen.

Lets just say the majority of people know that the American governement went into iraq with no evidence. Iraq did not attack america. Certain terrist groups did but that does not make the right for a president to call war on a whole country. These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government.

Also think about this which Rayne made a very good point. These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government.

Another thing I would add, I think that majority of Americans was mislead, including soldiers on the war. Now there finding out that the leader of their country is a liar and much more that I would like to say but now people are waking up from a deep sleep it seems and instead of blindly following a leader, they are actually questioning his leadership and know that they lead them down the wrong path. Question is, is it too late to fix the damage that already has been done? To americans and around the world because of this.

Joe

Joe, of course it is okay. I just wanted Rayne to be sure it was clear where you were from, that's all.

Again, our young men and women are honerable. They signed up for a job and they are standing up and doing it. Did someone on this thread infer they are now to be considered stupid? I know it wasn't you Joe. Not sure who it was and frankly it doesn't matter.

I will say this, I believe Rayne's comments come from her sincere compassion and she is entitled to them, 100%.

Personally, and I of course just speak for me, am so damn proud of our fine young men and women, and nothing, no one, not one word written or spoken twisted to make them appear other then what they truly are and that is HONERABLE young men and women. It sickens me that anyone would dare to make them other than that.

Perhaps I am amongst those that are stupid to allow myself to get in a so called debate with some who are using this war as a platform to disquise their deep seeded contempt for our beautiful country.

[wiggitywackiraq]

Get them...

[wiggitywackiraq]

You could join the military, that would make you a difference maker.

[wiggitywackiraq]

Greg, the onspiracy theorist here... but the first reply was right, some are speculation, but mostly right. There are literally 50 points of view fighting each other here. Fighting ech other, us, themselves... very weird time here.

[wiggitywackiraq]

What's your MOS dude?

[wiggitywackiraq]

Nice... im just grateful to actually hear what people think on this, and their opinions... im very enlightened, and humbled

[wiggitywackiraq]

Oh no, not this guy... well I'm appreciative of your opinions, and I'm going to read them later I think

[wiggitywackiraq]

Isn't she a sweetheart? I think so.

[wiggitywackiraq]

Rockerchick you rock... good thoughts!!

[Megg]

The following qoutes are taken from Jesushelper76's post. (I'm sorry I called you American, I forgot you were from Canada-my bad)

"I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen."

Yes I agree, my words were perhaps not entirely well written, but for the most part I thought I wrote what I felt. However, what was meant and what was taken from my words are completely different. I don't recall ever saying that soldiers are straight up murderers. I said killing innocents are wrong, but if your leader says to kill then you must. Therefore its not murder. Innocents are killed in war at some point, weither tried or not. Fact is fact. I do think so of the comments as I've said before were rude and some of the people who made them didn't even bother to post about it and what they think so they have no presidence here.

"These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government."

I agree, and this is one of the things I was trying to get across with my posts. The war is at this point never-ending. Sending people over is sending them to their likely deaths. So it is not my job to pity them or to cry for them. I'm sorry but, I have common sense to know what has a pourpose and what does not. I wouldn't go to war simply because I have a life here. Why would I want to possibly die for a lost cause? Maybe just maybe if I had no life (not speaking for others) and it was a good cause I would. But another reason is I don't believe in war. There are other options. We just like war, plain and simple.

"These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government."

Once again I completely agree. You have a choice. Just like that man has a choice to pull the trigger. If you want pity or a pat on the back for your efforts, no offense but it woln't be from me. All you or anyone will get is a good luck. You choose to join the war, maybe for the wrong reasons, maybe for the right ones. Doesn't really matter point is its going to get you no where when the government still sends more over and doesn't bother to put a stop to the war. If you want to change something, change the government. That is were all the problems lie. So in conclusion, aid-ing the war IS aid-ing the government and if you aid the government you probably agree with their laws and teaching and whatever. Personally, I'm not going to aid any thing that I don't abide.

[Auttajasi]

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.

[bushg]

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:

I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soldiers , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

[NeedKarma]

As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted.

It's only hearsay so it may not have happened at all. If the Westboro Baptist Church has not been prosecuted then don't hold your breath for alleged spitters.

[tomder55]

Don't listen to that wack job loony Rosie. She does not speak for the American people . She is in fact a poor representative of the opposition .

It is fair to oppose the war ;I don't ;but she is so over the top that she does not reflect the opposition position well at all. Her calling the troops terrorists was so over the top moonbattery that when she was challenged on the premise she imploded and picked a fight with a co-host on "THE VIEW " which ultimately led to her leaving the show this week.

Whether one agrees with the premise of our going to war ,the issue now is what kind of Iraq do we leave if we were to "re-deploy " now .

This was my posting on another site over the weekend :

American forces freed 42 kidnapped Iraqis — some of whom had been hung from ceilings and tortured for months — in a raid Sunday on an al-Qaida hideout north of Baghdad, the U.S. military said.

Military officials said the operation, launched on tips from residents, showed that Iraqis in the turbulent Diyala province were turning against Sunni insurgents and beginning to trust U.S. troops.

"The people in Diyala are speaking up against al-Qaida," said Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq. (U.S. frees 42 Iraqi captives in raid | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle )


This is indicative of what the new Iraq would look like if we were to leave prematurely... very similar to the Iraq we liberated. What is the utility of such slaughter houses ? Certainly they are not for information gathering . Why did Uday Hussein put his rivals into woodchippers? What did he gain beyond pure sadistic pleasure that the terror and fear produced ? This to him and I suspect to the al-Qaeda scum is nothing more than a form of recreation .

We know by the capture of the illustrated torture manual (one of the most under-reported stories in this war )that this is what they have in mind as the future Iraq. This was not done to get information. This was done for the same reason Saddam Hussein and his thugs did it: To intimidate the civilian population.

What we fight is a cult of evil and it doesn't matter if it's leaders names are Hussein or bin Laden. They are all heads of the same hydra.

Happy Memorial Day . We have tasked our brave soldiers with a mission worthy of the fight by the 'Greatest Generation'.The liberation of a small torture cell is small compared to the liberation of the Nazi camps ;but the spirit is the same. Then we fought evil because we recognized the imperitive. Today too many of us see it as optional.

[Skell]

I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

Nice post and very sincere. But I want to pose the question again.

How is this war in Iraq about protecting you? It has never been about defense. Afghanistan maybe was about protection, but Iraq? No way! It was an invasion to oust Hussein and take control of their country. Not defend our countries (the Coalition - US, Britain, Australia etc).

[Skell]

The War in iraq has been a mistake from the beginning. Most will agree on that other than George W and his lap dogs Blair, Howard et al.

I hardly know a person down under here that supported going into Iraq, yet we have a Prime Minister who ignored that and sent us in anyway. Now he is about to lose our Election here in November in a landslide on the back of this. It will be an overwhelming victory for the Opposition party and we will have a change of Government. Yet it is too late. We are in Iraq and there is no way out. Pulling out troops now is inconceivable. We have been committed to a war that seemingly has no end.

It is a horrible mess but it is not the soldiers fault. If you ask me our leaders have so much blood on their hands that the stain will never wash off with many!!

As always there are no winners in war. And this is a perfect example if this.

[Greg Quinn]

[QUOTE=bushg]who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America.

HOG-WASH!

That is so... must calm down. They are dying for oil and that's it. LOOK FOR THE ADGENDAS PEOPLE!! It's your Country, investigate! What freedoms in America were in jeopardy? The fuel? It's not free, it's people like you who let this get so far out of hand. How on earth did you get your computer hooked up? I honestly wish you didn't. And that girl that is on that show THE VIEW... She is a die hard democrat. And an attention seeker, she knew that O'Donnell was leaving soon and had to get her little bra tied in a knot. Afghanistan was a foot in a door and nothing more. You put so much value into your freedoms learn how to spell it.
Quote:
Bill Maher: [to Richard Perle] I think you guys might have been right about the big picture, and I'm not above saying, you know what, maybe I was wrong. Okay. But on the other half of it, why the incompetence? Why was this war conducted so badly from the beginning? And you have to admit that cost lives. And my theory is because Republicans are sentimentalists. Because you guys have such rose-colored glasses about America that you thought as soon as we showed up in Iraq, they'd be going, 'Freedom! Americans!' And that's why we didn't need armor on the tanks because they'd be giving us flowers and chocolates and nylons.

[Greg Quinn]

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.

GOOD POINT to bring up.

[bushg]

Whether I agree with the war or not those poor people are better off with out insane ruling them... and yes his insanity would have eventually come to America.