[ActionJackson]

Interesting theory. Is there anything that states that the words of the Bible are meant for the descendants of Adam and them only?

Also, you are comparing aliens to angels. If we dont make the distinction between the two, then that could also go to show that Heaven is just like another planet that is populated by aliens (angels).

If you would actually read the Bible you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the words of the Bible were written to, for, and about them. Just read "the begats" found in Genesis.

[ActionJackson]

Until you find evidence of this, don't expect me to take your word, as this is akin to bearing false witness against your brother. Almost as bad as assuming aliens would only come here to eat us.

One post you're all about perspective, then you want evidence and proof, then you're about perspective, then facts, then perspective, then facts. Whew... If I had only had your mood swings as a teen... I wouldn't have needed all those drugs.

[ActionJackson]

Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?

Actually, when our astronauts landed on the moon, there were sinners there. About as close and anyone can ever prove that sinners (or life of any kind) existed anywhere other than earth.

[Lacey5765]

Thanks Starman for the edit. WE LDS sometimes get misquoted and misunderstood and I appreciate your willingness to seek the truth about us. There is not a whole lot of discussion in the church about other Gods although we do strive to be worthly to become one after this life.WE take this scripture literaly: Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Of course we will never be equal with Jesus. He is the only begotten son and we can never have the glory that he has. Also I have never heard of the other planet idea. May be taught somewhere but as a life long member not familiar to me. WE do however believe that other worlds have been created but again not much more than that is discussed. It is not a large part of our doctrine. I have to assume that there are many things that I don't know about this creation and any others and my salvation really doesn't depend on that anyway. Great posts. I have enjoyed the discussions.

[Starman]

Is your edit in regards to Laceys comment?

Anywhoo....

Im getting a little confused but i believe the comparison that i was referring to is the one which you questioned here:


And yes, I agree about Mormonism. It is not based on what we know as the OT and NT now but other "lost" scriptures of the same Bible.

I find it odd how these scriptures can be so much different that the "accepted" ones.

So if that were true and our universe is somehow mingled with these other universes, then would they lie on the same plane or realm? or are they spiritual? If they are just spiritual (not meaning that in a derogatory way whatsoever), then is it even fair to acknowledge them as another planet as intended in the opening post?

Yes, the edit was in response to Lacy's feedback.


I'm not certain what the LDS teachings are in respect to these universes. But below is a very informative article on the multiverse subject.

Multiverse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



There's also the theory which attempts to explain the Big Bang as being a consequence of the collision between as branes [short for membranes] or dimensions. Some scientists who prefer this explanation don't rule out the possibility of life in these other dimensions if they do exist.

The following site offers an explanation about the this.

'Brane-Storm' Challenges Part of Big Bang Theoryt

Actually, God's heaven itself seems to fit the description of another dimension since it seems reserved for nonmaterial things and humans who are said to be admitted there must undergo a transformation.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50).


BTW

One thing to keep in mind is that the definition of a planet is one which necessitates three dimensionality. So strictly speaking, residents of other dimensional realms might live in or on places which don't fit the spherical requirements of the planetary category.

[Lacey5765]

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.

[ActionJackson]

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.

Although Christ was visible after His resurrection and Thomas was able to put his hand in the pierced side of Christ. Somehow that plane on the other side can be visible but it would seem that only under miraculous conditions.

[DrJ]

If you would actually read the Bible you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the words of the Bible were written to, for, and about them. Just read "the begats" found in Genesis.

There you go assuming things once again.

Interpretation of the Bible is key. The way that you interpret the Bible, or rather the way that you were taught to think the Bible should be interpreted, I assure you is quite different than my interpretation.

This is where Christians like you make assumptions about the Bible because, "well, thats just the way it is," and "if you actually read it, you would just know that." Rather than actually having any real insight on the matter. And yet, you discount other interpretations simply because that's the way that your "Religion" has taught you to think of it.

I did not say that I disagree with anything that you believe. And yet you continue to assume that I do. I have, however, asked you why you believe the way that you do. But your mind is closed to that as so many others are.

[DrJ]

Actually, God's heaven itself seems to fit the description of another dimension since it seems reserved for nonmaterial things and humans who are said to be admitted there must undergo a transformation.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50).


BTW

One thing to keep in mind is that the definition of a planet is one which necessitates three dimensionality. So strictly speaking, residents of other dimensional realms might live in or on places which don't fit the spherical requirements of the planetary category.

I could not agree more. And due to this, we cannot assume that Angels are then, in relation to "aliens". Would that be correct?

If so, then we know of no other intelligent beings (of this dimension?) that are capable of life without sin. This is one of the attributes which we so highly regard of Jesus Christ, himself.

Either way, we do not know whether they would be without sin or not. But if they were not without sin, is there a chance or a way in which they could ever be saved?


**side note... and not to bring you into anything that you are not a part of... but Starman is one of a handful of strong and intelligent Christians on this board, capable of intelligent thought, supportive information, and open-mindedness. I appreciate that.

[ActionJackson]

There you go assuming things once again.

Interpretation of the Bible is key. The way that you interpret the Bible, or rather the way that you were taught to think the Bible should be interpreted, I assure you is quite different than my interpretation.

This is where Christians like you make assumptions about the Bible because, "well, thats just the way it is," and "if you actually read it, you would just know that." Rather than actually having any real insight on the matter. And yet, you discount other interpretations simply because thats the way that your "Religion" has taught you to think of it.

I did not say that I disagree with anything that you believe. And yet you continue to assume that I do. I have, however, asked you why you believe the way that you do. But your mind is closed to that as so many others are.

There you go again "assuming" you know what I think.

I believe in Cause and Affect. I believe that there can only be 1 first cause and that Cause is God. God was uncaused for if He had been caused, He would not be the first Cause. Therefore, God is eternal.

I believe that God created the world in a literal 6 day period for the Bible says that the evening and the morning were the first day and the evening and the morning were the second day... etc.

I believe that God had a specific plan or blueprint for creation and that all was created perfect and that He looked on His Creation and found it to be good.

I believe that the first sinner was the archangel, Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer was as subtle as a serpent and that he deceived Eve into disobeying God's direct command not to partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I do not believe that the fruit of that tree was a literal apple or orange but rather a philosophy that was contrary to God's plan for Adam and his posterity.

I believe that by disobeying God, Adam and Eve suffered the consequences; were cast out of the garden of Eden; and were bound to live in an unperfect world.

I believe that the "man" and "woman" created in the 1st chapter of Genesis were created simultaneously and that they were created from thin air, fiat. I believe that Adam was later formed from the dust of the ground after God had rested on the seventh day and that Eve was subsequently formed from one of Adam's ribs. Adam was formed from pre-existing matter unlike those "created" from thin air. "Created" and "formed" are two different words with two different meanings.

I believe that the Bible is a history of Adam's posterity specifically that portion of his seed that is traced through Seth through to Heber to Noah then through Shem to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (later called Israel), then to the twelve sons of Israel who's posterity is the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Bible is full of history (His Story); life lessons; guidelines for living in the form of moral law; prophecy; examples of blessings and punishments. I believe that the Old Testament is the rock solid foundation on which the New Testament stands. I believe that the New Testament is the continuing history of the Old Testament. I believe that Jesus was an Israelite Who's lineage is traceable to the tribes of Judah (the King tribe) and Levi (the priest tribe). I believe that all 12 Apostles were also Israelites of one tribe or the other. Paul proclaimed to be of the tribe of Benjamin.

I believe that there is much of the Bible that has been fulfilled and some that has not been fulfilled. I reject the "rapture" theory that says that right before the end time tribulation, Christians will be raptured away. I believe that earth is a testing ground for mankind. God is looking for the faithful and steadfast believers who can withstand the trials to come (just as the Christians of the Dark Ages or the Christians persecuted by the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution withstood those trying times).

Should I continue? Much more that I could say but don't want to bore anyone.

[Starman]

I could not agree more. And due to this, we cannot assume that Angels are then, in relation to "aliens". Would that be correct?

If so, then we know of no other intelligent beings (of this dimension?) that are capable of life without sin. This is one of the attributes which we so highly regard of Jesus Christ, himself.

Either way, we do not know whether they would be without sin or not. But if they were not without sin, is there a chance or a way in which they could ever be saved?


**side note... and not to bring you into anything that you are not a part of... but Starman is one of a handful of strong and intelligent Christians on this board, capable of intelligent thought, supportive information, and open-mindedness. I appreciate that.

Righteous angels aliens? I have difficulty viewing them that way. More like friendly big brothers.

Angels

However, rebel angels, with their self-destructive unrepentant hate-motivated behavior, which can even take the form of possession of humans and animals, and their eagerness to produce hybrid nephilim during the pre-flood days comes across as very alien to me.

I agree, that we can't assume anything in relation to any other possible creature made in God's image except that it was created sinless and that if it is now in sin it is because it willingly chose that path or was born into sin as humans are now. The following scripture describes God's creation as perfect not sinful.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Those in sin would be in need of redemption. I would say that there would be a way to redeem such creatures by using the same method that was used to redeem us--a life for life sacrifice. In my opinion

BTW

Thank you for the commendation.

[Starman]

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.

Ultimately our perception is simply the interpretation of neural impulses sent in coded fashion and interpreted by the human brain in a predetermined way. So as long as we are fettered by our senses, the nomena --ultimate reality], will remain beyond our grasp. But this would apply to all other creatures as well, both terrestrial and extraterrestrial. What is red to us might seem green to them. What feels rough to us might feel smooth to them. What is bitter to us might taste sweet to them. What is pleasure to us might be pleasurable to them. What appears as bright to us might appear dark to them. This can be said of all the senses. In short, we could have a universe of creatures each species living within its perceived universe which to the other species either doesn't exist or is completely out of sensorial range. Imagine an attempt to reason with such creatures! If indeed such is the case, then that would perhaps explain the reason why God chose to create the vast distances which keep us apart. In my opinion


BTW
I agree, the article is not an easy read and sometimes scientists and science writers aren't very lucid in their explanations. I personally have difficulty with the dimensionality concept due to its ultimate location paradox requirements which physicists accept tongue-in cheek via hypothetically imagining all these universes within a dimension which contains them. But that sets up the problem of what contains that dimension ad infinitum. Only God knows the truth.

Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

[talaniman]

In short, we could have a universe of creatures each species living within its perceived universe which to the other species either doesn't exist or is completely out of sensorial range. Imagine an attempt to reason with such creatures! If indeed such is the case, then that would perhaps explain the reason why God chose to create the vast distances which keep us apart. In my opinion

Very good post Starman, and I think it can apply to humanity today, as we know the world is covered with humans who have evolved with many interpretations of their limited universes, to explain life as they see it. This changes as there is more interactions with those of opposing views, and the free exchange of methods or ideas take place. As humans all the tribes of the earth are caught in the conflict of promoting their own particular view point, as history tells us many wars, and much blood has been spilled, in the pursuit of extending influence, and gaining power, through Control of resources under the guise of religious belief, and divine power assumed by those to control the masses. All the religions of the Earth have used God as their battle cry to exterminate or dominate other humans, in this push for power and control. I imagine the same thing plays out on other populated planets in the same way, and someday we on Earth will stop the killing, to rise above the restraints of our own boundaries, and meet new life among the stars that have hopefully gone through the same changes and have bridged the distance you have mentioned. But first we must bridge the differences here on earth.

[ActionJackson]

As humans all the tribes of the earth are caught in the conflict of promoting their own particular view point, as history tells us many wars, and much blood has been spilled, in the pursuit of extending influence, and gaining power, thru Control of resources under the guise of religious belief, and divine power assumed by those to control the masses. .

Under the guise of religious beliefs like Bolshevik Communists (who believed in the religions of humanism and evolution) or under the guise of non-religious beliefs i.e. Nazism, Fascism, or even ultra-Capitalism. Not all the woes of the world can be blamed on some religion run amuck

[talaniman]

You missed my point. Its not the religion, but the peole who use it to justify their actions at the expense of human life and suffering. There is always some excuse to justify the mass killing, and carnage, and it always traces back to human greed, and not having a value, or respect for life.

[cal823]

Anyone who blames religion for all the earths wars, is overimplifying the matter, different wars are created by different things, and its not religion that causes wars of faith, but difference of religion, or religion being used to justify illogical and immoral behaviour.
I also believe that war is just another way of humanity expressing its hate for its own kind, its discontent with the fact that we do not have that one thing that we think will bring happiness, that maybe they are holding it back from us, and that we must take from them to be happy, also the misguided and selfish belief that they are other nations, and that we must be the superior nation, and that we are always right. When the truth is, we are all descended from the same, we are in fact all a huge family, any differences among us just caused either by will of god, or tiny mutations and chance within or genes. We are in fact, all human, and we all share the same loneliness, the same feelings that we are right, and the same misguided belief that we can be truly happy and satisfied by things other than god. Thankfully, there is a god, and he has shown us a path to happiness, and provided us all with a purpose, and he loves us, regardlesss of race, creed, intent, desire or nation.

[Capuchin]

Auttajasi agrees: Yep. If there are others out there, I think it is very likely that there are atheists.

I would just like to point out that I didn't say that at all. In fact I was saying that I wasn't sure if I agreed with talaniman on the atheism front.

[Auttajasi]

Auttajasi agrees: Yep. If there are others out there, I think it is very likely that there are atheists.

I would just like to point out that I didn't say that at all. In fact I was saying that I wasn't sure if i agreed with talaniman on the atheism front.

Yea, I realized that you were ambiguous about it. Unfortunately, I didn't write the "Auttajasi agrees" part. I was merely stating that I believe there are other atheists out there. Maybe I should have said it in the form of a new post rather than a reputation point. Sorry if my post made it seem that you were taking a stance.
Lesson learned. :-)

[Capuchin]

Hehe, I don't mind the extra rating, esspecially with all the people reading things into what I have said tonight.

I don't think that one data point is enough to extrapolate what other beings would be like from.

[DrJ]

Auttajasi agrees: They are not that different from the Bible. Nothing in LDS scripture directly contradicts that which is in the Bible. Again, the reoccuring theme in this forum is that we all read, see, hear, and think things each from our own lens of life.

Hmmm... that can be arguable... Simply based on interpretation. Then again, there are many books that some may consider blasphemous that can be said to not contradict anything in the Bible.

And I agree 100% to your last statement ;)