[Tuscany]

GWB has made mistakes. No way! He is perfect... or wait isn't that what he wants us to believe. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your political beliefs) GWB has single handedly demolished the republican party. He breeds mistrust and is the portriat of incompetence. As I republican I can honestly say... I am voting democrat in the next election.

[RetiredNavy]

What do you mean to defend our borders, to prevent the illegal from entering. If you do, then you do not know much about U.S. Law. Title 10 and Title 50 establish the Natational Defense which includes the four services. Under these laws, the U.S. Military is forbidden to take military action within the borders of the United States unless attacked by a foreign military. This is so that a military take over is impossibly. The only reason that the National Guard can assist is that they fall under the states governments unless required to deploy outside the U.S. for war. So, in the case of the military fighting terrorist in Iraq or elsewhere then the only option to get the military to fight the terrorist is to outfit all terrorist with uniforms, place them in Mexico to form a military and have them cross our borders in a military action. What do think the odds of that happening? So, if you the people want the military to "Protect or Borders in the US" you need to change the laws first.

So you complain about the power of the U.S. government, just image of the powers the government would have against there own citizens if the had the military behind them. If you want to give them more power, please by all means organize the people of the United States to change the law to give them even more power and passing that power down to the military.

[mr.yet]

My mis-trust of GWB started after 9/11, and I will gladlly change my support as soon as anyone can show me a photo of the wreckage of the 757 Boeing that allegedlly struck the penatgon.

Just one photo of the wreckage!

Now remember the Fan blades on the two engines are 9 ft in diameter.

[RetiredNavy]

GWB has made mistakes. No way!! He is perfect...or wait isn't that what he wants us to believe. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your political beliefs) GWB has single handedly demolished the republican party. He breeds mistrust and is the portriat of incompetence. As I republican I can honestly say...I am voting democrat in the next election.

I do agree with that. We voted for him because we wanted Conservitism to return. He has not done that, in fact minimal government is far from the truth during his tenure.

My mis-trust of GWB started after 9/11, and I will gladlly change my support as soon as anyone can show me a photo of the wreckage of the 757 Boeing that allegedlly struck the penatgon.

Just one photo of the wreckage!

Now remember the the Fan blades on the two engines are 9 ft in diameter.

Here are the security tapes from the Pentagon on that day. Pentagon 9/11 Crash Video To Be Released - Wizbang. Additionally, I personally know and lost people that I knew at the Pentagon that day.

[RickJ]

I know, I know, I should just stay out of this but I can't help it. My fingers will not listen to me! :)

1. George Bush has disappointed me more than words can say. I don't believe he's evil, but sure agree he's pathetic.
2. Knowing what I know today, if it were Bush vs. Kerry again, I'd have to vote (sadly) for Bush again.

[mr.yet]

Here are the security tapes from the Pentagon on that day. Pentagon 9/11 Crash Video To Be Released - Wizbang. Additionally, I personally know and lost people that I knew at the Pentagon that day.

I have seen this tape, it doesn't show the wreckage of the 757 Boeing. Not one single piece.

Yes, I agree and many people lost their life and I grieve for every single one of them and their families. My nephew works at the penatgon and was there that morning.

[RetiredNavy]

Hello Retired:

The above presumes you believe him. I don't - not for a minute. I think they're gonna listen to anyone they damn well please.

You believe him, huh? You were in Iraq? So, how many WMD's did you find?

excon

PS> Not that it matters, but for your information I spilled a few quarts of my blood in the Vietnamese dirt.

If you where in Vietnam, I would say I am glad you served your country. Your experenses says it all of the man you truly are. And CEO of a 500 company, please save me. If you bio is true, no company would ever allow you to get into management. Something about following rules, governance, respect, honest, and loyalty.

Well it is good to see that Conspiracism is live and well. Everyone is out to get you, the Federal Government, the State Government, and the Local Government.

[NeedKarma]

It's good to question your government.

[mr.yet]

Well it is good to see that Conspiracism is live and well. Everyone is out to get you, the Federal Governement, the State Government, and the Local Government.

Conspiracism, very interesting you would say that being retire navy.

What ever happen to We the People. A governement of the people , by the people and for the people. Something the government has forgetten.

[RetiredNavy]

It's good to question your government.

Yes to question, however I fail to see where the question is, there is only blame, mistrust and disregard for the government. On the other hand, I do agree that Bush has not adequatly answered the questions of the people and that is "in my opinion" his biggest flaw.

[NeedKarma]

their is only blame, mistrust and disregard for the government.

And rightfully so.

Movement to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ScottGem]

What do you mean to defend our borders, to prevent the illegal from entering. If you do, then you do not know much about U.S. Law.

No I do not mean to just prevent illegal entry. And I am fully aware of the laws governing use of the military on American soil. But there are a number of Nat'l Guard units in Iraq. Units that could be used in internal defense. In addition, the money wasted in Iraq could have been put too much better use in defending our borders, which is basically what I meant.

So you complain about the power of the U.S. government, just image of the powers the government would have against there own citizens if the had the military behind them. If you want to give them more power, please by all means organize the people of the United States to change the law to give them even more power and passing that power down to the military.

Where did I complain about the "power of the US Government"? What I complained about was the ABUSE of its power.

BTW, May I call your attention to the suggested guidelines for using the comments feature shown here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...e-24951-4.html

Since much of what has been said in this thread is opinion, giving a negative comment goes against those guidelines.

And finally, the more I think about it the more incensed I am at your accusation that I lied. You have no cause to question my or anyone's veracity absent of proof. Yes I was in the South Tower that day. I saw flames shooting out of the windows of the North Tower from my office window. I was in a stairwell on the 16th floor when the second plane hit. The lights went out and the building shook. I saw the plaza looking like a war zone with flaming debris all over the place. Those images and that experience are etched in my memory.

[RetiredNavy]

Conspiracism, very interesting you would say that being retire navy.

What ever happen to We the People. a governement of the people , by the people and for the people. Something the goverment has forgetten.

One some matters I agree with you. I do believe that a majority of our problems is that being a Politician is a career not a desire to serve the people of the United States. I do not believe that the ones that are elected for terms are out to get the people.

Having served in the military, I know much more about countries than what the average citizen knows or has access too. Thus when people make rushed discission without have all of the facts is a little irritating. That is why most of the military believe in what we are doing in Iraq is for the better. They know from having much more information and/or by seeing first hand.

Many bring up the WMD issue, and when we went to Iraq it was believed by all there was. Not just by Bush's cronies as some would point out, but also by the military, many other countries and their military. Did we find any, no? However, based on the information everyone had, Bush and his cronies and many other countries made a discission. Now that we have turned Iraq upside down, we have a moral obligation to correct the mistake. And we CANNOT let Iran get ahold of Iraq. You believe we have issues now, if we where to let that happen there would be turmoil. The 2500 military that have died in Iraq would be a small number compared to Iran.

[NeedKarma]

Having served in the military, I know much more about countries than what the average citizen knows or has access too.

I'm not too sure about that. The backpacker who spends their nights in the homes of the citizens then travels the country would have knowledge that you would not have. The habitual business traveller who experiences various countries and needs to understand their mores and traditions has good knowledge as well. People in one country who befriend and host may people from different countries have a good understanding of the variety of cultures. Military people may have knowledge that is skewed by being surrounded by heavy weaponry in a host country.

[Allheart]

Military people may have knowledge that is skewed by being surrounded by heavy weaponry in a host country.

Hi NK - me again :)

The above is not quite true. Our military are exposed to many cultures and variety parts of society. They actually become a member of the community where their duty station is, whether that be US or overseas. So, I would think they would have a very well rounded view and extensive knowledge of a variety of cultures, countries and policies. Oh trust me NK, it is far more than being surrounded by heavy weaponry. But I am sure retired Navy can answer this one awhole lot better.

Retirednavy - I do hope you address ScottGem's upset at not believing his word. I can not find the post where this took place, but I hope you do address it. That is very upsetting. Scott, I can not even imagine what that must have been like and so sorry you experienced that.

[RetiredNavy]

If you truly believe that then the world is lost. I have an idea, lets turn over the government to a 16 years old that thinks their teachers are just there to be irritating. Just because you know what a radiator is and can point out the fuel injector does not mean you know how to fix a car. So, talking to farmer that knows what is in his fields does not mean he knows what is in his government, military or even the local police. Also, there is a big differnece between a countries culture amound the average Joe then the culture of a government. Just look at the difference we have from the culture in the North and the culture in the South. Talking to a Northern does not mean I know the Southerner.

[NeedKarma]

Hi Allheart,

My point was that the residents of the country may relate differently to a person carrying a sidearm or assault weapon. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Just look at the difference we have from the culture in the North and the culture in the South. Talking to a Northern does not mean I know the Southerner.

How would you know anyhting about North Korea? You're not a citizen of that country.

[RetiredNavy]

But there are a number of Nat'l Guard units in Iraq. Units that could be used in internal defense. In addition, the money wasted in Iraq could have been put to much better use in defending our borders, which is basically what I meant.

Again, the Federal Governemtn using the National Guard is borderline to breaking the law. About the only way they are getting by using them is that the state Governors are directing them. In regards to defending our border, the terrorist that attacked us all had legal and/or forged passports to enter the country. That is up to Customes to emforce not the military. Mexican coming into the U.S. to work is not a military action by a foriegner. I do agree it needs to be fixed but it is not an issue of the military.



Where did I complain about the "power of the US Government"? What I complained about was the ABUSE of its power.

Since much of what has been said in this thread is opinion, giving a negative comment goes against those guidelines.

Please specify which comment you are talking about when I used the Comment Feature. I

Since And finally, the more I think about it the more incensed I am at your accusation that I lied. You have no cause to question my or anyone's veracity absent of proof.

This is very intersting comment considering the entire thread is doing just that except with Bush. Many have accused Bush of lying and are questioning veracity absent of proof. It is amazing how upset when people get when there actions are repeated against them by others.

With that being said, the reason I question your locality on 9/11 is that I find it hard to understand that anyone that lived through that HELL can not understand why it is better to take the fight away from our soil. Iraq may not have been the best choice but it has caused the terrorist (ie the Insergency) to attack those that is the job to fight. Citizen should not be at the front line.

Hi Allheart,

My point was that the residents of the country may relate differently to a person carrying a sidearm or assault weapon. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

In my case, I have been to 34 countries and I can agree that the view of a average Joe is different than the view of the government. So, in my case having first hand contact with the average citizen plus access to other information. I can a say I have more knowledge than the average US citizen about foreign countries. I can also say that my knowledge level is not even close to higher officials. So, I do not know everything.

How would you know anyhting about North Korea? You're not a citizen of that country.

Did I say anything about North Korea? Let me be specific, a U.S. Northern (example from New York) and a U.S. Southern (Example from South Carolina) cultures are different.

[excon]

Many bring up the WMD issue, and when we went to Iraq it was believed by all there was. Not just by Bush's cronies as some would point out, but also by the military, many other countries and their military. Did we find any, no?

However, based on the information everyone had, Bush and his cronies and many other countries made a discission.

Hello again, Navy:

You seem to think that is was OK to invade Iraq because we all thought he had WMD's. It wasn't. Hell, I thought he had 'em too. But, a country shouldn't go to war on what it thinks, and it certainly shouldn't go to war based on what I think. It appears, however, that my thinking wasn't any better than the CIA's. But, I was guessing. Looks like they were too.

Bush took us to war based on faulty data, and we've ruined their country. His unwarranted invasion EMBOLDENDED our enemies throughout the Muslim world. Plus, he's expanded the military to the breaking point making us even LESS safe than we were.

Finally, since you've been there, were the Iraqi's better off under Saddam than they are now?? I say YES! By a long shot, and I've never been there.

excon

[NeedKarma]

I can a say I have more knowledge than the average US citizen about foriegn countries.

Well that's not too hard. I think that most Canadians have more knowledge of foreign countries than most americans. :)

You are correct. I misread your comment about north and south, my apologies.

You sound very familiar, have you ever been on this site before?