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CaptainRich · Apr 27, 2007, 06:41 AM

Someone must be able to come up with something: If a tree fell in a forest and nobody was around, would it make a noise?
I have a theory on this.

Capuchin · Apr 27, 2007, 06:48 AM

Depends what you regard as a noise.

If you regard physical pressure waves moving through the air, then yes.

If you regard the above phenomenon hitting a human's eardrums and producing a signal in the brain, then no.

CaptainRich · Apr 27, 2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Someone must be able to come up with something: If a tree fell in a forest and nobody was around, would it make a noise?
I have a theory on this.

I believe the answer to this question is "No." If you think about the word noise, it is more subjective than if you asked if the tree falling made a sound. Yes, the tree falling would definitely make sound, but if nobody heard it, the sound couldn't be classified as noise.
Now, about that chicken-egg thing...

Capuchin · Apr 27, 2007, 06:51 AM

We had a thread about the chicken egg thing in the biology forum. It was determined that from an evolutionary point of view, the egg came first.

carcrashexpert · Apr 27, 2007, 07:02 AM

I agree - it's not as "deep" a question as people make it out to be. What's a "sound"? Is it the pressure wave, or is it the psychological phenomenon of it being processed by a brain? If it's the pressure wave, then, yes, the tree does make a sound. If it's the perception of the pressure wave, then no, it doesn't.

Funny how a properly-phrased question almost always answers itself, huh? ;)

Capuchin · Apr 27, 2007, 07:03 AM

It's the ambiguity of the definition of sound that makes it seem profound

carcrashexpert · Apr 27, 2007, 07:10 AM

"Ambiguity = profundity"? :)

Capuchin · Apr 27, 2007, 07:13 AM

Well, more that average joe doesn't realise the ambiguity :)

CaptainRich · May 4, 2007, 04:38 AM

If a man speaks in that same forest and no woman is around to hear, is he still wrong?

Capuchin · May 4, 2007, 04:40 AM

Men are never wrong, but sometimes they let the woman think they are in order to maintain balance ;p

mouaiyad · Oct 8, 2011, 03:43 PM

Hi!
Please what is the meaning of the sound?
Thanks

mouaiyad · Oct 8, 2011, 03:44 PM

Please I ask you not answer

Stratmando · Oct 11, 2011, 06:39 PM

This may help:
Sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CaptainRich · Oct 12, 2011, 08:19 AM

Noise was the question, not sound.
Sound as defined as the mechanical wave emitted; noise is subjective and requires it to be actually heard.
Most will agree that if a tree fell there would be a mechanical wave produced that is normally considered "sound" but without anybody there to hear that sound, it isn't noise, IMO.

TUT317 · Oct 12, 2011, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Noise was the question, not sound.
Sound as defined as the mechanical wave emitted; noise is subjective and requires it to be actually heard.
Most will agree that if a tree fell there would be a mechanical wave produced that is normally considered "sound" but without anybody there to hear that sound, it isn't noise, IMO.

Hi Cap,

Going back to the original question and the standard reply.

A tree falling creates a sound. A sound being pressure waves. Ears and brains interpret these pressure waves as a sound, If there are no ears and brains in the vicinity then the pressure waves goes uninterpreted. I remains just a pressure wave.

We are forced to conclude that when a tree falls and no one hears it fall it doesn't make a sound. That is, experienced sound.

Your point about the subjective nature of noise over sound.

I can see what you are getting at. However, once you enter into this type of scenario we are forced to play by the rules of the subjective idealist. His/her response would be that both noise and sound are subjective so it changes nothing.

Tut