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Wondergirl · Jan 18, 2023, 04:19 PM

And who wrote down those words?

jlisenbe · Jan 18, 2023, 04:22 PM

That's a completely different issue. But if you want to question the reliability of the Gospel accounts, then you have to question ALL of the words. Not just the ones that appeal to your preconceptions, but ALL of them. Do you want to go there?

And if you only want to appeal only against SOME of them, then you must have good reasons for those doubts. You never have in the past, and I feel certain you don't now.

Wondergirl · Jan 18, 2023, 04:27 PM

Your response was well-written and thought-provoking until this:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You never have in the past, and I feel certain you don't now.

jlisenbe · Jan 18, 2023, 06:37 PM

You never have in the past, and I feel certain you don't now.

It wasn't intended to be personal. Just ignore it.

Forgive me if I offended you. I sometimes just don't know how to respond to you. This has all been talked about in abundance months ago, so I guess I don't see the point of your question now, but I did not intend to be harsh.

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 02:00 PM

Let's not worry about hell. Instead, as Jesus urged, "love one another."

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 02:37 PM

I think the point is that salvation is not based upon good works, but rather is verified by our good works. Otherwise, it does not fit in with the rest of scripture.

To neglect to tell a person about a day of coming judgment, which is spoken of in that very Matthew 25 passage as well as many others, is not an act of love, but rather an act of hate.

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 03:17 PM

I disagree. Salvation is love in action.

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 03:21 PM

What is your scripture for that? Paul makes it very clear in Romans 3 that salvation can never be earned by good works, a truth also made clear in John 3 and a number of other passages.

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 03:49 PM

Jesus' death on the cross was love in action.

I didn't say anything about earning salvation. Just love. Love one another.

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 03:55 PM

Sure you did. "Salvation is love in action."

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 04:03 PM

Jesus did the earning by giving up His life for us. Now we are to love others with the same intensity and totality as He loved us.

Preach -- and demonstrate by your own actions -- selfless love.

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 05:36 PM

Preach -- and demonstrate by your own actions -- selfless love.

So in what way is neglecting to tell a person about a coming day of judgment an act of "selfless love"?

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 06:13 PM

The concern about and even fear of "hell" is not the correct incentive to do good, to love. We don't say (and teach our children to say), "I'm not going to punch my sibling (or lie to Mom or kick the dog or shoplift) because then I will end up in hell."

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 06:58 PM

So Jesus was wrong in what He said?

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 07:13 PM

Wrong about what? A day of judgment? Judgment isn't necessarily negative.

Judgment - the cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing a conclusion.

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 08:28 PM

Oh come on. That's ridiculous and you know it. Your definition can fit "judgment" in some uses, but clearly not in the way it is used in Mt. 25. Every single author in the NT mentions a coming day of judgment. It's just interesting that they felt people should know about this, but you have decided otherwise. Do you know more than them?

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 08:33 PM

They were male, just like you. They wanted people they considered bad to suffer in Hell FOREVER!!!! They punished their misbehaving children, made them sit on the naughty chair and spanked them so they'd be good.

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 08:37 PM

You might want to consider that sometimes you're just wrong, and it has nothing to do with gender. Even worse, you have included Jesus in that plainly wrong group.

Wondergirl · Feb 6, 2023, 08:42 PM

Jesus paid the price for all of us. And He didn't have children. Oh, yeah, "Scripture records few instances of Jesus interacting with children, but in each one we see Jesus treat the children with kindness and love, therefore showing how much He values them."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-and-children.html

jlisenbe · Feb 6, 2023, 08:53 PM

They were male, just like you. They wanted people they considered bad to suffer in Hell FOREVER!!!!

Do you think there is some chance that they knew more than "Wondergirl"? Well, it's hard to imagine you would say that about Jesus, that being a man, he wants everyone considered bad to suffer in Hell FOREVER, but it seems to be what you do when you are plainly wrong. Rather than just change your views, you lash out.