[jlisenbe]

Giorgia Meloni has become Italy's first female Prime Minister.

• Her new government is set to be the most right-wing since the era of Benito Mussolini.
• She's previously said, "No to the violence of Islam, yes to safer borders, no to mass immigration."

Far-right firebrand politician Giorgia Meloni has been sworn in as Italy's new prime minister, making history as the first woman to hold the position. views clear. "Yes to natural families, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology, yes to the culture of life, no to the abyss of death," Meloni told supporters of Spain's far-right conservative party Vox in June, Reuters reported.

The 45-year-old mother of one has made her conservative views clear. "Yes to natural families, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology, yes to the culture of life, no to the abyss of death," Meloni told supporters of Spain's far-right conservative party Vox in June, Reuters reported.

Incredible how MSN.com had to invoke, repeatedly, the name of Mussolini in order to frame Meloni as a far-right facist. So being in favor of traditional families, opposed to illegal immigration, and opposed to abortion is facist? Hmm. Maybe we can get her to come over here!

[Wondergirl]

Maybe we can get her to come over here!

Trump would not be pleased.

[Curlyben]

@jlisenbe, it might have passed you by, but she is a far-right fascist. Just saying..

[jlisenbe]

In what way? I don’t know much about her, but based on that article, I’d just say she is a solid conservative.

Fascism is a dictatorial political philosophy. I don’t see that in her at all.

[Wondergirl]

For JL --

What does fascism mean in simple words?

Fascism is a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism, controlling all industry and commerce, and promoting nationalism and often racism.

Britannica Dictionary definition of FASCISM: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.

Meloni: "Yes to natural families [headed by white, binary parents], no to the LGBT lobby, yes to [either male or female] sexual identity, no to gender ideology, yes to the culture of life, no to the abyss of death,"

[jlisenbe]

"led by a dictator...ruled by a dictator...often violently suppressing opposition and criticism," So how did you manage to miss the fact that she was put in this position by a democratic process with no violence? Your own definitions support my statement that she is not a facist. Thank you. I do appreciate your support.

Stating a position is hardly a plan for a dictatorship. If that's true, then every pol in the world is a dictator.

[Wondergirl]

You ol' cherry-picker, you!!!

How was she put into this position?

[jlisenbe]

I just used your definitions. I thank you for providing them. It definitely showed that she is not a facist.

And as always, you throw out the "cherry picker" claim when the evidence against you is absolutely overwhelming, So predictable.

It took me all of two minutes to find this. "The Prime Minister is appointed by the President of the Republic after each general election and must have the confidence of the Italian Parliament to stay in office." Yeah boy. That's facism for you! [SARC]

Prime Minister of Italy - Wikipedia

[Wondergirl]

You have no idea when you are being tested, do you. I looked at that Wikipedia article long before you did. Congratulations on actually doing some googling.

I almost deleted my question but didn't, hoping you'd come through for once. Now we need to ask Curlyben to please explain to us his far-right fascist comment.

[jlisenbe]

I'd rather ask you to explain your nonsensical explanation that NOBODY believes, including you.

I looked at that Wikipedia article long before you did

My goodness. Have you no shame at all??? I'm done with this lunacy. Present your fantasies to someone else.

[Wondergirl]

Present your fantasies to someone else.

You are so darn cute when you get het up! I looked at that article soon after Curlyben posted the beginning of this thread. I had no idea how Italy's government works. It's good to know for when I'm on Jeopardy, in case it's part of an "answer" I would frame a question for.

[Curlyben]

You really don't have to be a dictator to be fascist...
That would imply there are very few fascists, as only the person at the top of the political tree can follow this ideology.

As you like Wiki as a source of truth, continue your reading.

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race ...

Fascism from Wiki

[jlisenbe]

You really don't have to be a dictator to be fascist.

It is certainly true that you don't have to BE a dictator to be a fascist (and no one has suggested that to be true), but you have to BELIEVE in a dictatorial political system imposed and maintained by violence to be one. There is no evidence she believes in that, so other than the repetitive posting of definitions of fascism, no one has shown Meloni has any beliefs of that sort. What's being done is similar to me accusing Tom of being a communist, and then posting as evidence a couple of definitions of communism as though that settled the issue.

She is certainly a solid conservative, but to call her fascist is just a continuation of the lefts over the top criticism of anyone who disagrees with them. A great example is your posting of this. "Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race..." Perhaps you can provide examples of where Meloni has made statements showing she embraces that. The only one I could see is, "...belief in a natural social hierarchy", a social system that everyone acknowledges, and which exists for the good (and sometimes bad) everywhere.

I had never heard of Meloni until yesterday, and for all I know she might presently be a fascist, but I'm simply pointing out that no one here has provided any evidence of that.

[Curlyben]

Italy has a long history of Fascism, even before Mussolini and including more recent incumbents.
As with other European countries the position of President is more ceremonial as a head of state, rather than ultimate authority.

Any political ideology taken to extremes can be detrimental to the country as a whole.
Have you read the Wiki piece I linked to, it's quite enlightening.

[jlisenbe]

CB, are you editing my posts???

Last edited by Curlyben; Today at 06:33 AM.

Italy has a long history of Fascism, even before Mussolini and including more recent incumbents.
As with other European countries the position of President is more ceremonial as a head of state, rather than ultimate authority.

Any political ideology taken to extremes can be detrimental to the country as a whole.

Nice post, but again you have provided no support for your characterization of Meloni as a fascist.

[Curlyben]

CB, are you editing my posts??? .

Yes, you had some unfinished tags for color and font showing, no changes where made to content.

Nice post, but again you have provided no support for your characterization of Meloni as a fascist.

Seriously stop with the petty point scoring and actually read what has been presented.
The person in question represents the largest far-right party in Italy and their political standpoint.
Remember one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.
All depends on the point of reference.

[jlisenbe]

Seriously stop with the petty point scoring and actually read what has been presented.
The person in question represents the largest far-right party in Italy and their political standpoint.
Remember one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.
All depends on the point of reference.

Perhaps in your world asking someone to provide serious support for serious statements is "petty point scoring". In my world, it's part of trying to establish the truth. You have provided nothing other than generalizations and opinions about supposedly "far-right" political parties. I guess that's good enough for you, but I prefer something a great deal more substantial. What you are saying could very well be true, but without some documentation, it's nothing more than supposition.

I have read every word posted here carefully. There is nothing that even comes close to showing what Meloni believes other than a few items listed in the original post which were, "Yes to natural families, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology, yes to the culture of life, no to the abyss of death." None of those identify her as even remotely close to being fascist.

All depends on the point of reference.

No, it doesn't. There is still objective truth. Either she is fascist or she isn't. A person's point of reference has importance to him/her, but does nothing to establish the truth.

[Curlyben]

No, it doesn't. There is still objective truth. Either she is fascist or she isn't. A person's point of reference has importance to him/her, but does nothing to establish the truth.

Great, you win, well done.

[jlisenbe]

Discussion...ask questions...evaluate answers. Don't really care about how someone feels about things or about "winning".

[tomder55]

@jlisenbe, it might have passed you by, but she is a far-right fascist. Just saying..

This is just not so. It is standard practice in Italy ;and in Europe ;and sadly increasingly in America to label anyone who's political philosophy is not left or center left as a fascist.
She leads a right wing coalition .

First of all ;Italy changes governments as often as people change underware. They are close to averaging a new government every year since the end of WWII. So put the thoughts of dictatorship out to rest.
.
She came to power OPPOSING dictatorial mandates related to covid .
She calls herself conservative . But we know what that means in Euro-politics. The most conservativism they get is middling right of center .
Let's see what she comes up with in budgetary reforms . Their debt is 150% GDP . Let's see her plan to reduce it . It can't be worse than Mario Draghi's . He was a prolific spender even after Italy got generous amounts of cash from the EU 'Next Generation ' fund .

Reforms are definitely needed to attract business to Italy . If taking the steps needed to do so it fascism ;then so be it .

Lefty publication The Atlantic disputes the notion that she is a fascist.

She has declared that “fascism is history” and suspended members who persisted in praising fascist leaders. Meloni has also sought to demonstrate that she would prove a reliable partner for Italy’s European and North American allies. She has, for example, moderated the party’s criticism of the European Union, emphasizing that she wants the country to stay in the eurozone. And unlike many other far-right leaders in Europe, Meloni has been a vocal critic of Vladimir Putin and a staunch supporter of Ukraine.

Giorgia Meloni’s Election Win Is Not a Vote for Fascism - The Atlantic