[tomder55]

A chemistry professor at NYU was fired; after a 4 decade career at Princeton and NYU, because his students complained his course was too hard. Maitland Jones Jr. publishing 225 papers in his career. He and another collogue wrote the textbook "Organic Chemistry," a 1,300 page masterpiece

Organic Chemistry | Maitland Jones Jr., Steven A Fleming | W. W. Norton & Company (wwnorton.com)

350 Students of His students; some of them training to become doctors, signed a petition to have him change the course to make it easier for them to pass. The students cited emotional and mental health complaints to make the case that Jones ought to make the class less difficult. Instead, the university dismissed him.

Jones told the Slimes that he began seeing a loss of focus amongst his students a decade ago. But covid accelerated the problem.

At NYU, Students Were Failing Organic Chemistry. Whose Fault Was It? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

They weren't coming to class, that's for sure," said Jones. "They weren't watching the videos, and they weren't able to answer the questions."

The Slimes notes that Jones had already dumbed down his class to make accommodations. He reduced the difficulty of his exams, but students were still failing them. Organic chemistry of course is a difficult but very necessary subject for medical students to study. The class should act as a gatekeeper, preventing underqualified students from entering the field.

NYU hosts some of the most privileged and pampered students of this generation. No doubt they too will have their student loan debt cancelled by Clueless Joe. I hope to never need to be treated by any of the spoiled cry babies who signed the petition.

[jlisenbe]

They weren't coming to class, that's for sure," said Jones. "They weren't watching the videos, and they weren't able to answer the questions."

What? You mean that coming to class seems to be an essential ingredient for doing well in a class? Well, whoever heard of that???

[Wondergirl]

Were there students who enjoyed the class and did well in it?

[jlisenbe]

"But last May, 82 of Jones' 350 NYU students signed a petition against him arguing that the course was too hard and blaming Jones for their poor test scores." So that amounts to about 1/4 of the class complaining. But according to Jones, those students weren't coming to class or watching what were, I imagine, online videos of the class posted just for that benefit.

The problem, of course, is the message that is being sent to the other profs at NYU. Keep your class simple and your expectations low. Otherwise, your rear end could be the next one to go.

[Wondergirl]

Knowing how public grade school and high school education has dumbed down, this doesn't surprise me at all.

JL, you're a poet and don't know it!

Keep your class simple,
Your expectations low.
Otherwise, your rear end
Could be the next to go.

[jlisenbe]

That wasn't Tom. It was yours truly.

Knowing how public grade school and high school education has dumbed down, this doesn't surprise me at all.

Surprisingly, in our state the standards have grown progressively tougher for the past 20 years in K-12. Can't say how the colleges and universities are working.

[Wondergirl]

That wasn't Tom. It was yours truly.

I edited my post to give you credit.

Surprisingly, in our state the standards have grown progressively tougher for the past 20 years in K-12. Can't say how the colleges and universities are working.

Can those students diagram sentences? Do they know the times tables up to 12x12? Do they know the difference between its and it's, between their/they're/there?

[jlisenbe]

Can those students diagram sentences? Do they know the times tables up to 12x12? Do they know the difference between its and it's, between their/they're/there?

1. Don't really know, though I doubt it makes any difference. Diagramming is not the only good way to learn the elements of grammar. 2. It is not necessary to know times tables beyond the 9X table. 3. Yes.

I do know our state tests are very difficult. I have no doubt that students know a good bit more now than they did thirty to fifty years ago. I used to look at what our fifth graders were required to demonstrate proficiency on with amazement. It seemed to be awfully demanding.

[tomder55]

They need to learn how to treat patients . Who cares if they can diagram a sentence ? Learning organic chemistry is a basic . They hire people for the clerical parts of their practice .

[jlisenbe]

All very true, Tom. I remember taking organic in college. I will sympathize with them that it is a difficult undertaking. We had a grad student from India teaching our class. It was not easy to understand him and I hated the course, but I did get through it with a B or a C, and I didn't have to sign any petitions since we all attended class and didn't expect life to always be easy or fun.

[Wondergirl]

They need to learn how to treat patients . Who cares if they can diagram a sentence ? Learning organic chemistry is a basic . They hire people for the clerical parts of their practice .

Being able to diagram a sentence and rattle off the times tables means they have paid attention in class, done their homework, and care about learning and improving themselves. That's the kind of caregiver/nurse/doctor I want.

[tomder55]

Me ;I hired chemists and pharmacy techs .. I did not need to know their jobs .

[Athos]

I wenr to NYU on the GI Bill many years ago. It was a tough school academically and very expensive (the Times said recent one year tuition was $83000+ !!). The school is an urban school located at Washington Square in New York's Greenwich Village. No traditional campus. It took me three months to find the cafeteria.

Kidding aside, firing the teacher is absurd. Organic Chem is hardly an easy subject and lazy students who skip class ain't gonna make it. Problem with Jones is he's adjunct (no tenure) and can't fight back against the firing decision.

350 is the wrong number - that was the total number of which about 25% complained - the rest supported the professor as did the rest of the chemistry staff. The NYU administrators made the firing decision. Nobody takes Organic Chemistry for fun. It's required for future doctors and a benefit of the course is that it winnows out those who shouldn't be doctors.

The ones that need to be fired are the administrators.

[Wondergirl]

Me ;I hired chemists and pharmacy techs .. I did not need to know their jobs .

When you're a patient in a healthcare facility, you will want logical thinking caregivers around you, not organic chemists.

[jlisenbe]

I would want someone who is BOTH logical/caring AND who knows the subject matter of the medical field, and that would include a healthy dose of chemistry. And as much as I, like you, value the rules of grammar, I would prefer a person with a solid background in science if I had to take one over the other. Thankfully, we don't have to take one over the other. In our state, if you get through the twelfth grade, then you have a solid foundation in both areas.

[jlisenbe]

350 is the wrong number - that was the total number of which about 25% complained

That's what was contained in the quote which read, "82 of Jones' 350 NYU students signed a petition," so not too sure how 350 was wrong as it was presented as being the total number of students. Perhaps you misread it.

[Athos]

That's what was contained in the quote

350 Students of His students; some of them training to become doctors, signed a petition to have him change the course to make it easier for them to pass. The students cited emotional and mental health complaints to make the case that Jones ought to make the class less difficult. Instead, the university dismissed him.

[jlisenbe]

Got it. I was referring to post 4 and you were referencing post 1. You are certainly correct that 350 did not sign the petition.

[tomder55]

Columbia U ;an Ivy League school ,has announced that undergrad applicants no longer need to submit SAT and ACT test results .

“Our review is purposeful and nuanced — respecting varied backgrounds, voices and experiences — in order to best determine an applicant’s suitability for admission and ability to thrive in our curriculum and our community, and to advance access to our educational opportunities”

Columbia is Test-Optional | Columbia Undergraduate Admissions

[jlisenbe]

In other words, the straight white men can prepare to go to school somewhere else. SAT and ACT scores will be ignored to make it more difficult to make the case that discrimination is taking place.