[Wondergirl]

Look what he's done to himself!

[tomder55]

2 Developments
1. GSA NOT Trump staffers packet up the boxes of docs that ended up at Trump's residence at MaL . Trump could not possibly be responsible for what ended up at his home . This puts to bed the issue of intent . If indeed there were docs in MaL that had not been declassified ,it was the fault of the GSA . The narrative that "Trump took 15 boxes of classified documents" is a lie, Given the fact that Trump had been cooperating with the FBI in the storage and return of docs ;the raid was completely unnecessary for that reason.

2. Clueless waived privilege claims by Trump to facilitate the raid. His claim that the WH was not involved and had no prior knowlege is a lie .White House Deputy Counsel Jonathan Su had conversations with the FBI, DOJ and National Archives after 15 boxes of classified and other materials were voluntarily returned to the Archives from MaL Su told the Archives that Clueless would not object to waiving Trump's claims to executive privilege, a decision that opened the door for DOJ to get a grand jury to issue a subpoena compelling Trump to turn over any remaining materials he possessed from his presidency.
Archivist Debra Steidel Wall wrote ;
"The Counsel to the President has informed me that, in light of the particular circumstances presented here, President Biden defers to my determination, in consultation with the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel, regarding whether or not I should uphold the former President's purported 'protective assertion of executive privilege,'" ". I have therefore decided not to honor the former President's 'protective' claim of privilege."

Biden White House facilitated DOJ's criminal probe against Trump, scuttled privilege claims: memos | Just The News

Alan Desrshowitz in Snoozeweek summarizes the issue.

Executive privilege, rooted in Article Two of the Constitution, empowers the president to confer confidentially with members of his staff without fear that these secret communications will be made public. It is akin to similar privileges such as those with one's lawyer, priest, doctor and spouse. Their purpose is to encourage candid communications that are intended to remain secret.
But now, the Biden administration is claiming that communications made by President Donald Trump when he was in office can be waived by subsequent presidents. If this were the case, it would mean the end of executive privilege, since no one would be able to count on the future confidentiality of communications made with a sitting president.


Executive Privilege Means Nothing if the Next President Can Waive It | Opinion (newsweek.com)

Hey this could be a good thing . Let's say Trump wins in 2024 and the DOJ gets serious about investigating the Biden crime family . Trump could waive Quid Pro Joe's privileges when he was Veep and President . Maybe Clueless did not think this one through .

[tomder55]

3 The privileges of former Presidents in the Presidential Records Act trump the statutes used in the warrant to justify the raid .

The WSJ explains
The warrant authorized the FBI to seize “all physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§793, 2071, or 1519” (emphasis added). These three criminal statutes all address the possession and handling of materials that contain national-security information, public records or material relevant to an investigation or other matters properly before a federal agency or the courts.

The materials to be seized included “any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021”—i.e., during Mr. Trump’s term of office. Virtually all the materials at Mar-a-Lago are likely to fall within this category. Federal law gives Mr. Trump a right of access to them. His possession of them is entirely consistent with that right, and therefore lawful, regardless of the statutes the FBI cites in its warrant.Those statutes are general in their text and application. But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. It has long been the Supreme Court position, as stated in Morton v. Mancari (1974), that “where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment.” The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.

The Trump Warrant Had No Legal Basis - WSJ

[tomder55]

example of the retracted affidavit released by the Justice Dept under court order

[tomder55]

you can "read " the whole thing here .

Heavily redacted Trump search affidavit released: Live updates | AP News

In the May search, the FBI found 184 unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documentsmarked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET. There is no reference to what was contained in those documents.There is a reference to material marked FISA. That could be Russiagate related material but there is no confirmation of the subject matter. Trump ordered the declassification of Russiagate material before he left office. Classification markings on documents only note they were classified at one point in time. It’s quite probable the docs were later declassified but the markings not updated before he left office.

I don't believe this has been discussed here yet

Trump has a RICO lawsuit ongoing in Florida in which he has named virtually every coconspirator of the Russiagate hoax as defendants .

He initiated the suit in March Some of the defendants named have been removed from the suit by court order. It appears that in late July there was a lot of movement in the case Comey was removed as a defendant as was Andrew McCabe. BUT the FBI is not off the hook yet . Last week Adam Schiffhead and Rod Rosenstein were removed by court order .

The Westfall Act allows the federal government to substitute itself as defendants in civil claims against federal employees when claims are related to defendants’ work as an employee. This happened on July 22. Note the date . 2 weeks later the FBI raided MaL and grabbed up docs that the affidavit says are Russiagate ;FISA related docs.

[tomder55]

[jlisenbe]

Here's the document. The first few pages involve definitions and are not redacted. Start at page 9 and go to 30. See how much information you get out of that.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...rant-affidavit

[tomder55]

The problem is Trump did not keep organized filing systems . So docs marked confidential were comingled with love letters from un-Kim .That poses a national security threat .

Now what is more secure

1. Evita's email server where classified docs were stored and destroyed
2. The national archives were Sandy Burger walked in and stuffed docs into his socks
3. Bubba's sock draw
4. Mar a Largo where Trump kept docs at the FBI direction in a double locked room in a building that was guarded by secret service.
5. The swamp where classified docs are routinely leaked to the press.

[jlisenbe]

Now what is more secure

1. Evita's email server where classified docs were stored and destroyed
2. The national archives were Sandy Burger walked in and stuffed docs into his socks
3. Bubba's sock draw
4. Mar a Largo where Trump kept docs at the FBI direction in a double locked room in a building that was guarded by secret service.
5. The swamp where classified docs are routinely leaked to the press.

Great point. It's a shame the liberal dems here have abandoned the field. I'd love to know their view on that.

[Wondergirl]

Why did Trump take all those classified documents to Mar-a-Loco?

[jlisenbe]

Why wouldn't he? Now if someone can demonstrate some nefarious intention on his part, then fine, but so far that has not been the case.

Did you also ask why HC had classified documents on a personal, unsecured email server?

This is actually what I'd like to know your view on.

Now what is more secure

1. Evita's email server where classified docs were stored and destroyed
2. The national archives were Sandy Burger walked in and stuffed docs into his socks
3. Bubba's sock draw
4. Mar a Largo where Trump kept docs at the FBI direction in a double locked room in a building that was guarded by secret service.
5. The swamp where classified docs are routinely leaked to the press.

[Wondergirl]

Why wouldn't he? Now if someone can demonstrate some nefarious intention on his part, then fine, but so far that has not been the case.

Did he have official permission?

[tomder55]

what do you mean by "official permission " ?? He was the President . Who was he supposed to get permission from ?

[Wondergirl]

A President can leave office and take with him anything he wants?

(Our country has three equal branches of government -- executive, legislative, and judicial.)

[jlisenbe]

He can declassify anything he wants.

The question you were asked, as is oftentimes the case, goes unanswered.

[Wondergirl]

He can declassify anything he wants.

With no oversight by the other two branches of government?

[jlisenbe]

The Legislative can impeach or override a veto. SCOTUS can decide a legal issue once someone brings suit.

When Biden decides to commit the feds to 500 bil in new spending without the approval of Congress, that would be a good time for the repubs to bring a legal case pointing out how unconstitutional that is and let the SCOTUS decide it.

[tomder55]

The answer is that there is a vague ambiguous law called the Presidential Records Act that has no enforcement written into the law. Disputes between the President and the National Archives have been handled in the past by negotiations between the 2 .

I have no doubt that this is heading to SCOTUS for resolution and Congress will no doubt move to strengthen the law .

[jlisenbe]

They better make that move prior to November.

[tomder55]

A judge in FLA will appoint a "special master " to review the stuff the FBI seized and prevent the FBI from reviewing privileged information.

The judge also will order the FBI to "specifying all property seized" . Presumably that will prevent them from making Russiagate related docs disappear .