[jlisenbe]

You were suggesting DW was trying to advance Greek philosophy by mentioning his Greek reading. I'm sorry, but that missed the truth by a mile.

Not only is he the foremost authority on NT Greek on this site, but he is the ONLY person here who has studied Greek formally. It took a great deal of commitment for him to get where he is. Now you are correct in saying that knowledge of Greek won't guarantee a person will arrive at the truth, but I think you are entirely too dismissive of his achievements.

I would suggest you take the burr out from under your saddle and just civilly engage in discussions here. And I say that as one who has had to learn how to tolerate some of the evasiveness and ugliness that has gone on here for as long as I've been involved. I've just had to decide not to return ugly with ugly and to try and be respectful. It ain't easy at all, but I won't advance the gospel any by throwing bricks.

[waltero]

What are you talking about?

return ugly with ugly

Read my posts.
I was simply (nicely) questioning the ability to gain a full understanding while being served Greek. It stemmed from -"Today's Bible reading." - where does, "today's Greek Reading" fit in? first thought - Greek influence???

Then I read this

Thanks for shutting down walteroo. Masterfully done and well explained. I appreciate it.

Where did that come from? What, - I dare question his life's work...how Dare I !!! You can Kiss each others Arses all you want.
Clearly, this guy still believes within the sphere of the flesh.

Who's in Charge...as if a simple Greek reading, will bring a whole new meaning? I suggest a person have a good old fashion Bible reading if he misses such an obvious answer (I mean the answer was right there, he even said it)...really. Apparently, he is still oblivious to the Truth...it was not written in Greek, ah yah, yah, that's it.
Watch out for Pride....it's a sure killer.

[Wondergirl]

I suggest a person have a good old fashion Bible reading if he misses such an obvious answer (I mean the answer was right there, he even said it)...I mean really. Apparently, he is even still oblivious to the Truth... it wasn't written in Greek, ah, that must be it.
Full of Pride.

Which translation/version of the Bible do you use?

[waltero]

Which translation/version of the Bible do you use?

I use the Holy Spirit translation.
oops, you're still on my ignore list!
Kindly Shut it ;-)

[jlisenbe]

What are you talking about?
return ugly with ugly

Something like this. "Kindly Shut it ;-)"

[waltero]

Something like this. oops, you're still on my ignore list!
Kindly Shut it ;-) That's all you have? ooow, Sooo ugly...You've just made the list :-P

Today's Greek reading brought me to something

The image is, speaking a foreign language, such as Greek, that others (such as me) can't possibly understand.

Thanks for shutting down walteroo.

Do you still not get it (clearly has to do with "Greek authority")?

Masterfully done and well explained.

Explained what? (Arse tickling)

I appreciate it.

Who's Speaking Greek?

WHO is in charge??
Men, whether they will it or not, are working out God's purposes, advancing his designs, accomplishing the ends that he desires.

How are you going to shut this Down?

He only addressed the question of worship.

Do you not Understand???

Maybe because; there is no attribute so essential to God as this. It is for his holiness, more than for anything else, that his creatures worship him.

This is not Greek...Any Questions?

[jlisenbe]

The image is, speaking a foreign language, such as Greek, that others (such as me) can't possibly understand.

That's the image you have of it. It is not the image I have. In fact, you and I can both understand NT Greek if we are willing to put some work into it. I do it all the time. Now certainly not to the level that DW does, but it can be done.

WG asked a good question of you. Are you JW or LDS?

[waltero]

That's the image you have of it. It is not the image I have. In fact, you and I can both understand NT Greek if we are willing to put some work into it. I do it all the time. Now certainly not to the level that DW does, but it can be done.

I understand this to be true. It is easy enough, and readily available.

That's the image you have of it. It is not the image I have

I'm not talking about Greek. I was wondering about the Greek reading person who posted the question.It has been made plain as Day. His Posts make it, plain as day.

Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework

His reaction speaks louder than Words. Why should he feel threatened by such a question?

WG asked a good question of you. Are you JW or LDS?

I assume you are asking this because of my previous statement; Husband presenting wife to Jesus. The same as Jesus presents us to his Father?

Why would you have a problem with this? Any chance you are missing something?

[jlisenbe]

I'm not talking about Greek. I was wondering about the Greek reading person who posted the question.It has been made plain as Day. His Posts make it, plain as day.

Perhaps to you. Not to anyone else.

Why should he feel threatened by such a question?

What makes you think he feels threatened?

You are welcome to your opinion. I get frustrated with DW because he makes posts and then won't respond to answers to those posts, but that's his prerogative. The central point remains that he was not trying to advance "Greek philosophy" as you suggested.

Let's move on. We've beaten this to death.

[waltero]

You know that is what is so frustrating about the two of you. You read a post with preconceived understanding. I am constantly having to go back and search and repost, and after I do you are off on another tangent. Then when we come back to the heart of the matter, you ask the same questions...having me search for one of my previous posts...knowing that the two of you are anal retentive, having to use exact verbiage as before.

Why should he feel threatened by such a question?

Give the benefit of the doubt...you tell me? I'll give you a little help - Thanks for Shutting Walteroo down. I simply asked a question and his response told me what I first suspected. I'm a bit flabbergasted that you still don't see it. Your first response was a solid no - Greek does not influence...I believe it can and does...such as here and now. And it would be foolish for somebody like DW to blow it off, as offensive...to even suggest such a thing! I'm not saying it is a stupid question. I'm saying that maybe DW lost sight of the ball, and it might have something to do with the Greek...for a Christian...There should never ever be any doubt about "who is in Charge." At some point in our lives, it doesn't even matter who is in Charge... it should only be about praise and Worship.

Anybody can find the Greek meaning, it's at our fingertips. It's not that Complicated. But when you become educated by it or give your life over too it, that's a different story...Our Eyes become disordered.



Now we can shut it!

[jlisenbe]

You are right in that you initially simply asked a question. But then you started down roads like this. "Reading the Bible vs having a greek read it to you?" So how you come up with "having a greek read it to you" is beyond me. No one said anything about a Greek reading the NT to DW.

"It's not that Complicated." Actually, it does become complicated. I'm glad we have people like DW. I don't just blindly accept his conclusions and I wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so, but his area of study is very useful. If not for people like him, you and I wouldn't have English translations to read.

[Wondergirl]

Does waltero know the NT was written in a language called Greek? English didn't exist back then.

"The basic reason why Greek was chosen for the New Testament instead of Aramaic or Hebrew was that the writers wished to reach a broad, Gentile (non-Israelite) audience, not just a Jewish audience."
https://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/...ish%20audience.

[Athos]

The basic reason why Greek was chosen for the New Testament instead of Aramaic or Hebrew was that the writers wished to reach a broad, Gentile (non-Israelite) audience, not just a Jewish audience."

I'm lovin' this. Hi, Waltero!


Nice article, WG, but I have a quibble or two (or three).


To quote:
Why was the New Testament originally written in the Greek and not in Hebrew or some other language?

Matthew first wrote in Hebrew.




He could have, but did not, use the much harsher Hebrew term for dogs commonly used by the Jews in their hatred and contempt for Gentiles.


The underlined leads to present day anti-semitism. Did the author really have to use such inflammatory terms?




Given that the Bible is the most popular book ever printed, proved wise indeed.


And the least read/understood of all those books.




So nice to be back.

[waltero]

Hello Athos, was wondering when you would show up ;-)

So how you come up with "having a greek read it to you"

What's the difference? He said, "Greek reading" (belonging to a book club?)...Funny how words can be so open to interpretation...think maybe he wanted to get into some Greek?

Today's Greek reading

I understand what he said. - It's no use, if you don't see it by now, you will never, never see it.

Okay, one last try: What if I started off with - Today's spiritual reading? or "Today's Latin reading"??? "Today's Bible reading" puts us all on the same level, same playground...When referring to one's Greek/Bible - It’s important, to distinguish between terminology and techniques in contrast to tenets...Don't you think?

"The basic reason why Greek was chosen for the New Testament instead of Aramaic or Hebrew was

The greeks were the World stage.  Worldview, morals, and central claims of Judeo-Christianity far predate Greek philosophers. virtually all questions of truth, ethics, worldview, and morality are still discussed using the basic principles of Greek philosophy.

Would it be fair to say that, when Western culture thinks of “philosophy,” what’s in mind is really “Greek philosophy?

[jlisenbe]

What's the difference? He said, "Greek reading"

"What's the difference?" Seriously? There is an enormous difference between reading Greek versus listening to a Greek read. The NT authors were not Greeks.

Would it be fair to say that, when Western culture thinks of “philosophy,” what’s in mind is really “Greek philosophy?

Interesting question. I'm not well versed on philosophy so it would be hard to answer. For many people, it seems to be eastern philosophy that rules the day, but I think western culture has been more influenced by Christianity than anything else. Hard to say.

[waltero]

"What's the difference?" Seriously? There is an enormous difference between reading Greek versus listening to a Greek read.

What's the difference when reading DW's [Greek] interpretation vs some other Joe Smuckatelli's interpretation...that I can find on the Web?

Maybe somebody would be better off if they seek spiritual reading, instead of Greek! They should read it themselves as opposed to having a Greek read it to them (you think?)

What's the difference [too any of "us"] - is what I was speaking of...even if we were involved, in learning Greek. Do you now understand where DW (wittingly or unwittingly) was going with this??? That's where we get this - "(speaks volumes) Thanks for shutting down walteroo. Masterfully done and well explained. I appreciate it (you clearly recognize his athoriti)"...Are the two of you speaking/reading greek? cause I don't see it.

I think it has to do with DW believing he trumps all others with his interpretation of the Scriptures...Hence "thanks for shutting Down Walteroo!"

WHO is in charge??

Where did this come from?

Except Jesus didn't contradict him...He only addressed the question of worship.

Maybe it was the greek in him that missed it???
Men, whether they will it or not, are working out God's purposes, advancing his designs, accomplishing the ends that he desires... It is for his holiness, more than for anything else, that his creatures worship him.
And all we get is -"thanks for shutting down Walteroo!" He can't see it because he can't get past the Greek (pride).

It's Okay if you don't see it that way. there really is no matter for you. It should matter to him.

Hard to say.

Not so hard really. virtually all questions of truth, ethics, worldview, and morality are still discussed using the basic principles of Greek philosophy...I believe most of us would understand this to be the case.

It would be naïve to think that Greek religious or spiritual ideas never, in any way, made inroads into the Judeo-Christian community. "Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before"...Exactly!

@JL: I don't understand how you feel this is hate speech. I am being open and honest and in no way hateful. If somebody feels hate or hurt, it is only their pride that they are feeling...and that's OK.

I might not enter this site as frequently as most of you. But I do keep up on most of the Posts. I don't respond because I have no interest in responding to a predictable outcome...hate often rules the day in here, then comes -The End!

This is where I come, trying to hone my writing skills and maybe visit with Friends. Tis good to search the Scriptures as well.

[Wondergirl]

This is where I come, trying to hone my writing skills and maybe visit with Friends. Tis good to search the Scriptures as well.

Searching the Scriptures can be done when they are in Greek, Latin, Urdu, Tagalog, Farsi, or English. Philosophy has nothing to do with it.

[waltero]

Searching the Scriptures can be done when they are in Greek, Latin, Urdu, Tagalog, Farsi, or English.
Philosophy has nothing to do with it

Oh brother, you really want to go there? It has a lot more to do with "just searching" Scripture.
Philosophy literally means “a love of wisdom."
Bye for now.

I said enough. I'll let you work it out.

[jlisenbe]

What's the difference when reading DW's [Greek] interpretation vs some other Joe Smuckatelli's interpretation...that I can find on the Web?

Every time you read your English Bible, you are reading "some other Joe Smuckatelli's" translation. To translate is not the same as to interpret.

This is where I come, trying to hone my writing skills and maybe visit with Friends. Tis good to search the Scriptures as well.

A worthwhile objective.

It would be naïve to think that Greek religious or spiritual ideas never, in any way, made inroads into the Judeo-Christian community. "Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before"...Exactly!

No one has suggested otherwise. But DW DID NOT use the Greek NT to advance Greek philosophy. What he did in the Greek is done in English translations millions of times a day. "In my Bible reading this morning, I noticed something I had never picked up on before." Exact same thing. We certainly don't suggest the person is trying to advance "English philosophy".

[Wondergirl]

Oh brother, you really want to go there? It has a lot more to do with just searching Scripture. Philosophy literally means “a love of wisdom."
Bye for now.

I said enough. I'll let you work it out.

As I said, searching Scripture -- in ANY language -- has nothing to do with a formal study of that country's philosophy but has everything to do with making the Scriptures available to all people and promoting the Gospel of Christ through the learning, study, and application of God's Word.