[jlisenbe]

Did I say the OT is "a giant allegory"? No!

I didn't suggest you did.

The description of an allegory matches the elements in Genesis 3. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean by "standard".

Everyone employs a standard as to when to take a passage literally versus when to regard it as strictly figurative. What is your standard?

[Wondergirl]

Everyone employs a standard as to when to take a passage literally versus when to regard it as strictly figurative. What is your standard?

Do you know that story is literal? If so, what is your standard?

[jlisenbe]

The return of the dodger.

At any rate, since you dare not answer the question, I'll give you what I use which is what most people use. The passage should be taken literally unless there is a compelling reason not to. Just bear in mind that "literal" and "allegorical" are not mutually exclusive.

[Wondergirl]

The return of the dodger.

At any rate, since you dare not answer the question, I'll give you what I use which is what most people use. The passage should be taken literally unless there is a compelling reason not to. Just bear in mind that "literal" and "allegorical" are not mutually exclusive.

Actually, I'm a Sox (not Dodger) fan.

I agree that the story may also be literal. Like I said earlier, we'll find out in heaven. Its real value lies in its being an allegory. To repeat myself:

"We'll find out in heaven if it was literal. Meanwhile, I'll learn a moral lesson from the allegory."

[jlisenbe]

Its real value lies in its being an allegory.

Not sure I agree with that, but it's OK. See how easy this was once one of us (me) decided to say something definite?

[Wondergirl]

Not sure I agree with that, but it's OK. See how easy this was once one of us (me) decided to say something definite?

Oh, JL, you are such a teacher! A mentor!

[jlisenbe]

I'm happy to be of help to you.

[dwashbur]

Do we need to separate you two again??

[Wondergirl]

Do we need to separate you two again??

This is what happens when the thread starter leaves the room. At least JL and I are playing nice (for now).

[jlisenbe]

At least JL and I are playing nice (for now).

Very true. We have even managed to agree on two or three items. That probably means the end of time is just about here.

[waltero]

“And the devil (he describes only his vision, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority) took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world

Here, if proof were wanted, we have evidence that all that passed in the Temptation was in the region of which the spirit, and not the senses, takes cognizance.

Except Jesus didn't contradict him.

Why would you think Jesus should (verbally?) Contradict him?

He only addressed the question of worship.

There is no attribute so essential to God as this. It is for his holiness, more than for anything else, that his creatures worship him.

The whole "look around you" misses the question. It's not "what's going on," it's "who is the actual authority over this world and the nations that muck it up?"

The whole earth is full of God's glory." Men, whether they will it or not, are working out God's purposes, advancing his designs, accomplishing the ends that he desires.

Colossians 2:20 "If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world?

People, in America, Talk about being a Christain Country. When did a Christian country, Christain Kingdom, or Christian State, enter into the picture? Sorry, there is no such thing as a Christain Country/Kingdom (other than the Church/Kingdom of Heaven), It's about the Church, It has always been about the Church. I really don't think Politics should be brought up in the Church. We belong to the Kingdom of Heaven, we can not belong to Both.

Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth and they're his to give to whomever he chooses.

Jesus has nothing doing with this. His sight is set on High (So should we). Jesus talks about the people of this world coming to him...He says; I don't know where you come from. Satan shows Jesus something, what does Jesus care (much less know) about something that is not of God?

Today's Greek reading brought me to something

Having one's thought pattern derive from the Greeks as opposed to???

Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework?

Let the Word Live to us oh Lord

[jlisenbe]

He says; I don't know where you come from.

He did?

Having one's thought pattern derive from the Greeks as opposed to???

He's just talking about reading the NT in the original Greek language. It doesn't concern a thought pattern.

It does happen eventually. "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.'"

[waltero]

He says; I don't know where you come from.
He did?

Luke 13:27

Today's Greek reading brought me to something
He's just talking about reading the NT in the original Greek language.

Is there Nothing more to it?

It does happen eventually. "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

Where exactly are you trying to go with this? Yes, I'm sure this is Talking about America or any other "one" Kingdom of the World pffft!

We all belong to the Kingdoms of this World, there is no getting away from it. Humble ourselves before the Lord, for the sake of his (not for our sake) Great mercy...it's the only way. Otherwise, we might reap the whirlwind that is coming against the Kingdoms of the Earth.

[jlisenbe]

Luke 13 passage in context. "And he said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ 28In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. 29And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God."

Not really sure what your point is in relationship to the Kingdom of God.

Is there Nothing more to it?

Well...no.

Where exactly are you trying to go with this? Yes, I'm sure this is Talking about America or any other "one" Kingdom of the World pffft!

I'm not trying to do anything other than point out that the kingdom of this world will belong to God in the end. It is very clear. Not real sure how you saw America in that passage. I certainly didn't other than we are very much a part of this worldly kingdom. Or at least it sure seems that way to me.

[waltero]

Not really sure what your point is in relationship to the Kingdom of God.
Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth

Wasnt referring to the Kingdom of God.

Well...no

Reading the Bible vs having a greek read it to you?

I'm not trying to do anything other than point out that the kingdom of this world will belong to God in the end.

Another time, another Kingdom, Another World.

[jlisenbe]

Reading the Bible vs having a greek read it to you?

When you read the Bible in English, you are reading a translation from the Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT). So to read in the Greek actually puts a person closer to the original text.

[waltero]

So to read in the Greek actually puts a person closer to the original text.

Closer to a proper understanding...closer to God? It might in many ways be a hindrance...The process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?

dwashbur, once mentioned - "Than would make my lifes work meaningless." I'm still trying to wrap my head around that? Something seems amiss. We don't work, a Christian lives the life. it is who we are. It is the will of the Heart.

Jesus is the message we can't receive the message without receiving the messenger. Greek has nothing to do with it.

As far as "who is in Charge." Whomever you want Brother.

[Wondergirl]

I know from three years of studying and translating Latin and from knowing German as my ancestral language that translations of any language into English (or any other language) is fraught with incorrect understandings of words and phrases. That can also be true of Hebrew and Greek in the two testaments.

Thus, the best idea is to read the testaments in the original languages, Hebrew and Greek.

[jlisenbe]

Closer to a proper understanding...closer to God? It might in many ways be a hindrance...The process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?

So the original authors of the New Testament books were all believers in Greek philosophy? After all, they're the ones who wrote IN GREEK. Are they guilty? Come on, Walter. You're tilting at windmills.

translations of any language into English (or any other language) is fraught with incorrect understandings of words and phrases.

That's why teams of experts are used in Biblical translations.

[Wondergirl]

That's why teams of experts are used in Biblical translations.

Or if those experts have an agenda to promote.