[dwashbur]

Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before. In Luke 4:5 Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth and they're his to give to whomever he chooses. Not God, Satan.

That kind of puts a very different spin on things when someone says "God put so and so in that office". Sounds like maybe it was the other guy?????

I haven't seen a single commentary tackle this question. I confess I've been reading that passage since I was 4 years old and never noticed this before. Anybody have any thoughts on it?

[Wondergirl]

Check Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary for Luke 4.

Also, John 8:44(ESV) --

"...[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

[jlisenbe]

Rather interestingly, Jesus on 3 occasions refers to Satan as, "the ruler of the world".

“Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I , if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself” (John 12:31-32).

“I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go from here” (John 14:30-31).

“… and concerning judgment, because the ruler of the world has been judged” (John 16:11).

Now did that put him in a position of authority of the nations and kingdoms? One would seem to follow the other. Does he still hold that authority? Good question.

[Wondergirl]

Look around you. Listen to parents dealing with their children in public, to Karens in stores, note shoplifters and road rage, find out how many people are incarcerated in your county jail, read and take note of the stories on the first four pages of your daily newspaper. Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?

[jlisenbe]

Look around you in a different fashion. Look at the many churches where the Gospel is preached and people are loved and helped. Look at the many food banks and pregnancy help centers run by churches and Christian organizations. Observe the multiplied millions of acts of kindness and love which occur everyday. Look at the thousands of people a week who commit their lives to Christ. Read just this one testimony I saw this morning from a former graduate of our program. "August 2, 2020 I graduated from Righteous Oaks Recovery Center and it’s been 2 1/2 years since I kicked the devil and alcohol to the curb! The road has not been easy but with the help of God and great family and friends it’s been a blessing. God has truly blessed me over the past 2 1/2 years!!! I Thank God every day for Righteous Oaks!"

Now who seems to be in charge? As someone once said, "Not an atom moves in the universe without God's permission."

2 Corinthians 4:4
...in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

[Wondergirl]

God gave us free will, to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!

[dwashbur]

Check Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary for Luke 4.

Also, John 8:44(ESV) --

"...[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Except Jesus didn't contradict him. He only addressed the question of worship.

The whole "look around you" misses the question. It's not "what's going on," it's "who is the actual authority over this world and the nations that muck it up?"

[Wondergirl]

Authority to do what?

[jlisenbe]

On this earth, WE are in charge!

You didn't give us that choice. "Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?"

Except Jesus didn't contradict him.

True. And I wonder if Satan, knowing who he was dealing with, would have bothered with lying about such a fundamental issue.

[Wondergirl]

You didn't give us that choice. "Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?"

Think outside the box.

[jlisenbe]

As opposed to you framing your options more carefully?

[Wondergirl]

As opposed to you framing your options more carefully?

And you were a teacher???

[waltero]

Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before.

Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?  

In Luke 4:5 Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth

Satan is in the counsel of God. We know about how he goes to and from the Earth...

and they're his to give to whomever he chooses.

God, Gave Man Dominion and authority. Man gives himself over to the powers that be - darkness/light. Saten would have no Authority or "power" if man didn't hand it over to him...same Holds true for the King of Kings, AKA Jesus. Often times God will use Evil to destroy itself.

God gave us free will, to do as we wish,

If that is what you truly believe, you are already lost. Man Doesn't have free will...God is the only one who has free will.  Thing is, you might think you're in charge. Jesus says we are slaves. Free will has more to do with being Created in his image...Free will is in the Image of God.

We are to give [All] Dominion and Authority to our Lord and savior...we are no longer in Charge.  

God created heaven and Earth

to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!

You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

[jlisenbe]

Welcome back, Walter.

[Wondergirl]

Man Doesn't have free will...God is the only one who has free will.

Genesis 3?

God created heaven and Earth You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

Yes, when they use their free will to do evil.

[jlisenbe]

Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?

No. DW is good enough with NT Greek that he reads the NT in that original language.

[dwashbur]

Authority to do what?

He said it: to give them to whomever he pleases. The implications of that one statement seem enormous to me. I'm still sorting out what the rest of the questions are, never mind finding answers yet.

[Wondergirl]

God created heaven and Earth You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

And too often they are.

But sometimes Love wins out.

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post: "God gave us free will, to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!"

[jlisenbe]

Well said, WG.

(Added later.) I don't entirely agree or disagree with your final line. I do think we have some freedom of will, but I don't know how that relates to God's sovereignty. I would not say that I think WE are in charge. We certainly think we are, but I doubt it is as simple as that.

[jlisenbe]

DW, Col. 1:13 might interest you in your thinking. "He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son."