[dwashbur]

Believing that the greek has [more] authority or the same authority as the Bible, as a whole? Placing the Greek above (or equal) the Bible, so to speak.

This may be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this board. The "Greek" IS the Bible, in fact it's more the Bible than your English version because that's how they wrote it.

I can't decide if you're really that uninformed, or if you're deliberately trolling. Either way, I don't have time for this kind of garbage. Keep spouting your nonsense, I won't be reading. I'm done with you.

[jlisenbe]

NO, since it only refers to the NT. The Greek can bring you questions, the Bible (NT, OT) will bring you answers. The Bible in its entirety is most important.

Sorry, but this is an absurd statement. You acknowledge in your own statement that the NT is part of the Bible. So when you are reading from the NT, you are reading from the Bible.

I just read this the other day. I was thinking, could there be more to this than meets the eye? Might it be the first time Jesus didn't give an Answer to a question? Any chance you might be able to shed some light on this? Thought it strange you brought it up at the same time I found myself focusing on it.

I think Jesus did answer their question. He asked them a question that, if honestly answered, would have answered their own question as well. He was basically saying, "My authority was verified by no less that John the Baptist when he baptized me and heard a voice from heaven." And they knew that if they agreed that John's baptism was from Heaven (therefore God), then they could not question the validity of the ministry of Jesus.

[Wondergirl]

waltero, the NT was written in a language called Greek.

Examples of the same word in several languages:
Greek = αγάπη
Latin = amor
German = liebe
Japanese = ai
English = love

I Corinthians 13:4 in Greek:

καὶ γὰρ εἴ ἐσταυρώθη ἐξ ἀσθενείας ἀλλὰ ζῇ ἐκ δυνάμεως θεοῦ καὶ γὰρ ἡμεῖς ἀσθενοῦμεν ἐν αὐτῷ ἀλλὰ ζήσομεθα σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκ δυνάμεως θεοῦ εἰς ὑμᾶς

P.S. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT. Together, they are the Bible.

[waltero]

Come on guys, You know Exactly what I am Saying. The Old Testament is part of the Bible (body), and The New Testament is part of the Bible (life). Combine the two and you have the full body of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, aka Bible. There is a good chance you'd be able to get through life reading only the New Testament (same with OT), but you’ll impoverish your spiritual life if you do that. - All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Jesus replied, “Your mistake is that you don’t know the Scriptures, and you don’t know the power of God.

"Todays Greek reading" - Who does that??? Somebody who studies Greek - yes.
Somebody who studies the NT -Yes. Somebody who studies the Bible - Not necessarily. Many, many Christians think that the “Old Testament” is something that is boring and not relevant to their lives today, which is why they don’t read it.

I get it; When somebody mentions the New Testament I would understand it as being the Bible, Much the same when mentioning the Old Testament. Just as same as most, if not all, LDS members. When the book of Mormon is mentioned they open up the Bible. But when I open a thread and see; "greek reading." I'm not sure what to think. my first thought was - In what way does using the term “greek” affect the way in which the text is approached? The term “greek” isn’t concrete like the term “Bible.”

Either way, you can look it up for yourself. The NT is Part of the bible. as is the OT. When you speak of "greek reading" it is assumed you are referring to the NT alone.

[Wondergirl]

The term “greek” isn’t concrete like the term “Bible.”

Greek is the LANGUAGE that the NT was written in!!!

Please see my post #223 just above yours.

[Wondergirl]

Come on guys, You know Exactly what I am Saying. The Old Testament is part of the Bible (body), and The New Testament is part of the Bible (life).

No, the Bible is made up of the OT (Law) and NT (Gospel).

[jlisenbe]

Come on guys, You know Exactly what I am Saying.

No, we don't.

The Old Testament is part of the Bible (body), and The New Testament is part of the Bible (life).

Who decided that (body and life)?

The NT is Part of the bible. as is the OT. When you speak of "greek reading" it is assumed you are referring to the NT alone.

I wouldn't argue with that.

the Bible is made up of the OT (Law) and NT (Gospel).

Sort of.

[Wondergirl]

WG: the Bible is made up of the OT (Law) and NT (Gospel).

JL: Sort of.

OT = thou shalt not
NT = love is the fulfilling of the Law in the OT

[jlisenbe]

OT = thou shalt not
NT = love is the fulfilling of the Law in the OT

Sort of.

There are many "thou shalts" in the OT, and many, many expressions of the love and mercy of God.

There is much said in the NT about a coming day of judgment.

I actually preferred your law/Gospel contrast better. John 1:17 provides some support for that. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth [p]were realized through Jesus Christ.

[dwashbur]

Many, many Christians think that the “Old Testament” is something that is boring and not relevant to their lives today, which is why they don’t read it.

You are correct, I don't read the Old Testament in Greek. I read it in Hebrew. It's what my Masters degree is in.
I happen to be reading through the Greek New Testament. I have no idea what your problem is, but this whole thing is so far beyond ridiculous I couldn't tell you why we're even discussing it.

[waltero]

The NT is Part of the bible. as is the OT. When you speak of "greek reading" it is assumed you are referring to the NT alone.
I wouldn't argue with that.

SO you agree. - "the New Testament IS [part of] the Bible." NOT the Bible...Now I'm wondering what we were going on about. I'm not going to review any of the previous posts. all I remember is the bunch of you were talking as if the NT IS the Bible...I know, I know, it all depends what "is" is ;-P . It is not the Bible, it is only part of the Bible. That wasn't the point really. "When you speak of "greek reading" it is assumed you are referring to the NT alone.

I wouldn't argue with that.

But you were! Okay, Okay moving on. If I can't convince you how important it is to take the Bible as a whole, I'll settle for - "greek reading" as referring to the NT alone.

Glad to see you're sticking around DW. This is not a problem with me. I've been involved in many silly discussions throughout my life, 87% of them come from this site. I Honestly trying to learn something. This is not meant to be an argument...for me at least.

This may be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this board.

No worries, I expected this. Happens all the time. This will come in handy when I [try to] explain what I understand as going on here.

I couldn't tell you why we're even discussing it.

Enquiring minds want to know

The "Greek" IS the Bible -
it's more the Bible than your English version

Maybe we'll go with -"Authority of the Bible"?
What is it, who has it and where does it come from?
Any takers?? What's your take on this???

[jlisenbe]

SO you agree. - "the New Testament IS [part of] the Bible." NOT the Bible.

I've never said otherwise. In fact, I said that exact truth many posts back. "You acknowledge in your own statement that the NT is part of the Bible. So when you are reading from the NT, you are reading from the Bible. And if you read the OT in English...it is still the same Bible carrying the same authority." Also said it here. "So if you read the NT in English, and DW reads it in Greek, you are reading, for all purposes, the same NT and thus from the same Bible."

How on earth you can think that is in question is beyond me. You are the only one who's made an issue of it. In the same way, if you are reading in Matthew, you are reading in the NT. Is Matthew the ENTIRE NT? No, but it is certainly part of it. Why are we even talking about this???

I'd still like to know where you got this from. "The Old Testament is part of the Bible (body), and The New Testament is part of the Bible (life)."

Who decided that (body and life)?

[dwashbur]

I'll settle for - "greek reading" as referring to the NT alone.

I've talked many times about my project of reading through the New Testament in Greek. I have never implied anything else. I have no idea where you got any of the stuff you came up with, I must conclude that you pulled it out of your own head and it doesn't really exist.
I never said it was "The Bible" or any of the rest. Dude, you created this entire thing out of whole cloth, and it was and is absolutely pointless.

[jlisenbe]

Just about right. It's OK to ask a question, but the answer should have settled the issue.

[jlisenbe]

DW, if you are still following this thread, have you read How to Choose a Translation for All It's Worth by Gordon Fee? If so, I just wonder what you thought of it.

[waltero]

I don't know how many times I've heard; that's the old testament, we don't go by the old testament anymore! That is the Old Testament, that's an allegory, That doesn't apply, etc.

The NT/OT "is" the bible until it's "not." The same could be said with the B.i.b.l.e. For instance - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, Basic Information Before Leaving Earth, Basic Instructions Before Living Eternally, Be Inspirational, Befriend and Love Everyone, Believers Information Before Leaving Earth...which one do you "subscribe to"?

The "Greek" IS the Bible -
it's more the Bible than your English version

Here's the question: is this quote from DW an anachronism? In other words, If DW is right, where does that leave us?

I'd still like to know where you got this from. "The Old Testament is part of the Bible (body), and The New Testament is part of the Bible (life)."

I don't want to go into it right now.

[waltero]

Edit:

[Wondergirl]

I don't know how many times I've heard; that's the old testament, we don't go by the old testament anymore! That is the Old Testament, that's an allegory, That doesn't apply, etc.

No one here says "we don't go by the Old Testament anymore". It's very important. In it is the Law, an SOS -- Shows Our Sin. God loves us so much that He gave us commandments to rein in our sinfulness. To get that message across to us, the OT is full of Jewish history (telling of His people's failures and His forgiveness of them), plus teaching devices such as poetry, parables, and allegories.

The other SOS is in the New Testament, which tells us about God's son Jesus who suffered death in our stead and in three days rose again -- and Shows Our Salvation.

[jlisenbe]

I don't know how many times I've heard; that's the old testament, we don't go by the old testament anymore!

You haven't heard that a single time here.

That is t he Old Testament, that's an allegory,

The Apostle Paul used OT passages in an allegorical manner. It doesn't mean they are fictional. Referring to a passage as allegorical does not mean it didn't happen. You really should learn the difference.

it's more the Bible than your English version.

It is certainly as close to the original as you can get since it IS the original. Where does it leave us? It leaves us as reading translations which are generally WONDERFULLY faithful to the originals. That is unquestionable truth. Period.

The NT/OT "is" the bible until it's "not."

And no one here has said that either. Where are you getting all of this from???

I think WG's statement was pretty good except that she left out the third SOS. Saved from Suffering judgment.

[Wondergirl]

I think WG's statement was pretty good except that she left out the third SOS. Saved from Suffering judgment.

That's what the NT that Shows Our Salvation tells us, that we are saved from suffering judgment (SFS???).