[Wondergirl]

All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Many people choose to "switch" genders and then give it up to "switch" back to what they really are. But that also has nothing to do with the topic.

I merely answered your question. And no, people don't switch back and forth from gender to gender. Are you taking a new med, jlisenbe?

[jlisenbe]

I don't make claims I cannot support.

https://www.hli.org/resources/what-p...20of%20reasons.

[Wondergirl]

I don't make claims I cannot support.

https://www.hli.org/resources/what-p...20of%20reasons.

Ah, pro-life, right-wing. Gotcha.

You probably missed this section that I posted earlier:

Trans athletes vary in athletic ability just like cisgender athletes. “One high jumper could be taller and have longer legs than another, but the other could have perfect form, and then do better,” explains Andraya Yearwood, a student track athlete and ACLU client. “One sprinter could have parents who spend so much money on personal training for their child, which in turn, would cause that child to run faster,” she adds. In Connecticut, where cisgender girl runners have tried to block Andraya from participating in the sport she loves, the very same cis girls who have claimed that trans athletes have an “unfair” advantage have consistently performed as well as or better than transgender competitors.

[jlisenbe]

Never mind. It's hopeless. The data was from the National Center for Gender Equality, hardly a "pro-life, right-wing," organization. But you just had to make a knee jerk comment rather than spend ten minutes actually reading the data.

Wouldn't you be much better served to simply admit you were wrong? It would certainly look better.

[Wondergirl]

Never mind. It's hopeless. The data was from the National Center for Gender Equality, hardly a "pro-life, right-wing," organization. But you just had to make a knee jerk comment rather than spend ten minutes actually reading the data.

I will when you will.

And what you posted was from hli.org, Human Life International,

Catholic, Pro-Life Mission. We teach the world to value life and follow God's plan for the family.

Wouldn't you be much better served to simply admit you were wrong? It would certainly look better.

You first.

[Athos]

FACT: Trans athletes do not have an unfair advantage in sports.


MYTH: Trans athletes’ physiological characteristics provide an unfair advantage over cis athletes.


Women and girls who are trans face discrimination and violence that makes it difficult to even stay in school. According to the U.S. Trans Survey, 22 percent of trans women who were perceived as trans in school were harassed so badly they had to leave school because of it. Another 10 percent were kicked out of school. The idea that women and girls have an advantage because they are trans ignores the actual conditions of their lives.
Trans athletes vary in athletic ability just like cisgender athletes. “One high jumper could be taller and have longer legs than another, but the other could have perfect form, and then do better,” explains Andraya Yearwood, a student track athlete and ACLU client. “One sprinter could have parents who spend so much money on personal training for their child, which in turn, would cause that child to run faster,” she adds. In Connecticut, where cisgender girl runners have tried to block Andraya from participating in the sport she loves, the very same cis girls who have claimed that trans athletes have an “unfair” advantage have consistently performed as well as or better than transgender competitors.
“A person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance,”according to Dr. Joshua D. Safer. “For a trans woman athlete who meets NCAA standards, “there is no inherent reason why her physiological characteristics related to athletic performance should be treated differently from the physiological characteristics of a non-transgender woman.”
https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-righ...etes-debunked/

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The comment above discusses violence to MtF transgenders, athletic ability factors, an anecdote in Connecticut, and the position of Dr. Joshua Safer who is the head of the Transgender Department in Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York. There is nothing directly claiming that MtFs do not have an advantage over women in women's sports. However, it is implied by the anecdote and by Dr. Safer who is the parent of an MtF. The implied claim is unsubstantiated in either case.


SPECIFICS:

The first three sentences discuss anti-MtF violence without discussing the issue at hand (sports advantages by MtFs).
The next three sentences discuss various differences in athletic ability among cisgenders based on parental care.
The last part is the Connecticut anecdote - an unsubstantiated claim of no difference in athletic ability between genders.

A sample anecdote from me is the answer the top tennis star Serena Williams gave when asked about competing with top male tennis stars. "No way", she said. "Their serves are far more powerful than mine. There is no way I could compete with that." This anecdote is not offered as proof, simply as an anecdote.

Dr. Safer's contribution is to state without substantiation that, “There is no inherent reason why her (transgender woman) physiological characteristics related to athletic performance should be treated differently from the physiological characteristics of a non-transgender woman.”

The link from ACLU is its opinion on the matter. It is not defended in any way.

Finally, it was subsequently asked, "Why have "men's" teams and "women's" teams? Why can't teams be made up of people, regardless of gender, who qualify?

I have no difficulty with teams being made up of people who qualify, regardless of gender.


CONCLUSION:

My position is derived from speculation based on common sense observation.
Your position is derived from speculation that is unsubstantiated and anecdotal.
Both positions are speculative.

The answer will be derived from statistical data calculated over a finite period of time. The time period is one month to three months depending upon accurate collection of data.

[Wondergirl]

The answer will be derived from statistical data calculated over a finite period of time. The time period is one month to three months depending upon accurate collection of data.

How about you and I do this collection and calculation of statistical data?

[tomder55]

Emma Weyant is the fastest FEMALE swimmer in the nation! The title that she rightfully won was taken from her by a male.

[Wondergirl]

tomder, have your muscle mass evaluated and then take estrogen and progesterone for at least three years. After that, have your muscle mass reevaluated.

[tomder55]

you can mutilate the body all you want to inside and out . A man is a man and a woman is a woman.

[Wondergirl]

you can mutilate the body all you want to inside and out . A man is a man and a woman is a woman.

Nope, that's scientifically untrue. I ask you: What is a man? What is a woman?

(Btw, every human fetus begins as female.)

[tomder55]

[Wondergirl]

Aha, he won't answer my two questions -- so why is he stepping over them? (No high school or college biology?)

[jlisenbe]

A man is a man and a woman is a woman.

It's quite a comment on the deception our culture has entered into that such a plainly true statement would even be questioned. I suppose change of species in next? After all, what is a dog? What is a cat? What is a person?

[Wondergirl]

Ah, JL can't define them. And the definitions have nothing to do with external sex organs.

[Athos]

How about you and I do this collection and calculation of statistical data?

You criticize tomder for not answering your questions, yet you offer this as one of your answers. Trying to be funny is just another form of distraction from the issue.

In case you are offering this as a serious reply, there is no way either one of us can perform a statistical survey on the issue. The only conclusion I can make from your reply is that you cannot defend your position.

There is nothing wrong with believing something without being able to prove the belief. Faith is the prime example. When you claim that a belief in something is based on proven fact when it clearly is not, that is where you go off the rails and lose credibility.

Barring new actual factual evidence on the issue, I will leave the discussion at my post # 96 as the definitive answer to date and consider any further commentary as superfluous.

[tomder55]

Nothing serious about this . While the world is blowing up America debates shemales as our contribution to demonstrate our decadence . The Babylon Bee has it right . They nominated Rachel Levine as man of the year .

[tomder55]

Thomas' time in the 500 free style was 4:33.24.
Enough to take 1st place . How would he have done in the men's 500 free style ?
There is a comparison to last year's times . The NCAA champ swam it in 4:07.97. The slowest of the men swam it in 4:16.13, 17 seconds faster than Thomas’s winning time in the women’s event.

As I said above ,there is nothing serious about this debate except for how women are being deprived of the opportunity to fairly compete .

[tomder55]

btw Twitter ;which has become the point of the spear for suppressing any thought that run counter to woke wisdom ,has cancelled Babylon Bee for their satirical post about Rachel Levin. They promise to reinstate the Bee if it recants .

[tomder55]

removed comment