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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #1

    Feb 25, 2022, 06:31 AM
    What would've happened of Ukraine had not surrendered it's nukes ?
    Maybe Russia thinks twice about invasion ?

    Even worse ,Ukraine has gun laws .Handguns are illegal unless licensed, and licensing is "may-issue"( you must pass basic requirements and the issuing authority may issue you a permit at it's discretion .). It is also necessary to have a license to purchase a rifle and again authorities can exercise discretion as to who can have a license. There are at most thirteen firearms for every hundred Ukrainians, versus more than one firearm per capita for Americans. Magazine sizes are restricted to 10 rounds.

    Russian troops don't have magazine restrictions .

    Ukraine once had 5,000 nukes . They turned them over with Chamberlain like security assurances from Russia and Bubba Clintoon. The Budapest Memorandum was their "peace for our time" . Nations and citizens need to think twice before surrendering the means to defend themselves .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #2

    Feb 25, 2022, 09:55 AM
    "We shall deal with Putin like a man who has lost reason. He's just simply mad. He's just simply crazy. He's just simply evil to come here to kill Ukrainians." former Ukrainian President @Poroshenko with a AK-47 on the streets of Kiev.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #3

    Feb 25, 2022, 11:02 AM
    nations and citizens need to think twice before surrendering the means to defend themselves .
    Absolutely true.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #4

    Feb 25, 2022, 11:19 AM
    While there were nukes in Ukraine, they were Russian, ex CCCP, and Russia had the launch information & deployment.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    * Meanwhile the Ukrainian government calls on citizens to make Molotov cocktails and defend the city
    * Ukraine's interior ministry also says 18,000 guns have been given to volunteers
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #5

    Feb 25, 2022, 12:24 PM
    When the Soviet Union collapsed Ukraine had possession of the nukes They also held the means and capability to produce more . Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk hinted that his country had the ability to fire its SS-24S, which were built in Ukraine. There is also debate about bomber jet nukes that Ukraine possessed .

    Forecasting at the time of the deal in 'The Case for a Ukrainian Nuclear Deterrent' John J. Mearsheimerin in 'Foreign Affairs' argued that not only should Ukraine retain it's arsenal ;but that it should be encouraged to
    create it's own nuke deterrence.

    The Case for a Ukrainian Nuclear Deterrent (mearsheimer.com)



    On the table at Budapest ;along with surrendering them was the operational control option that some in Ukraine argued for. Ukraine ultimately opted to surrender them with security assurances that have been twice broken as Mearsheimer predicted .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #6

    Feb 26, 2022, 05:53 AM
    Why won't NATO set up and enforce a no-fly zone as has been requested by Zelenskyy ? WE did in Iraq and other nations in the past . Answer . Because enforcing a no-fly zone risks escalation up to and including the use of nuclear weapons . That is why it was folly for Ukraine to give them up . Nations like Iran and the NORKS take notes .
    Nuke deter even great powers .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #7

    Feb 27, 2022, 04:15 AM
    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”Get it now ?

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