Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #1

    Jan 15, 2022, 07:12 AM
    Why is our incarceration rate so high?
    We are the world's leader in putting people (about 90% men) in prison/jail despite the fact that we don't come close to be the leader in crime rates, being much lower than countries such as South Africa and Venezuela, lower than France, and on about the same level as England. Yet we lead everyone in incarceration rate. Any thoughts on why that is?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #2

    Jan 15, 2022, 07:22 AM
    I have a quick thought . Get tough on crime politics led to mandatory sentencing guidelines that took discretion from the judges .

    btw Clueless Joe when he was a Senator was the poster boy for Mandatory Minimums in his 1994 crime law .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #3

    Jan 15, 2022, 07:28 AM
    Considering the fact that the recidivism rate is nearly 70%, that does not bode well for the future. The incarceration rate for men age 20 to 50 must be frighteningly high, perhaps as high as 2% or 3%.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #4

    Jan 15, 2022, 09:09 AM
    Another factor I thought about was aggressive prosecutors who use the position as a stepping stone for higher offiice .

    This ties into a huge problem. They pile on charges ,many of them bogus so that the charges can be plea bargained down. The prosecutors do not have to really prove the guilt or innocence It is called the threat of a 'trial penalty ' to not cop a plea .

    What's even worse is that exculpatory evidence can be hidden by the prosecution during plea negotiations. There is no accountability as there are no records of how a deal is reached . Not even the judge is privy to the negotiation process .

    Many of the incarcerated do not get their day in court . It is a grossly unfair system . There have even been times when DNA evidence overturns a conviction when a guilty plea was made from coercive plea bargaining

    The reform is simple but creates new problems . No one should be incarcerated without a trial by jury . The problem then becomes it overwhelms the court system .
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #5

    Jan 15, 2022, 09:38 AM
    I wonder what the rate of mistrials, acquittals, exonerations or other miscarriages of justice looks like in this regard, as the problem, while maybe compounded by mandatory minimums, may lay further down the custodial chain.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #6

    Jan 15, 2022, 10:20 AM
    And incarcerations don't teach the prisoners anything positive for an eventual productive life outside. My nephew spent six years in a state prison, no rehab offered, reoffended but, thankfully, instead of going to jail or prison, has been put in a very structured county rehab program.

    The entire system needs to be overhauled.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Jan 15, 2022, 10:21 AM
    I just wonder how legal practices and culture are different in other countries which have higher crime rates and yet significantly lower incarceration rates than we have.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #8

    Jan 15, 2022, 10:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    other countries which have higher crime rates and yet significantly lower incarceration rates than we have.
    Offenders aren't incarcerated and are free to continue to commit crimes?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #9

    Jan 15, 2022, 11:00 AM
    Yeah. That thought occurred to me as well, but if that is true, then why aren't their crime rates significantly higher than ours? They are in some cases, but not in all. Germany, for instance, has both a low incarceration rate AND a low crime rate. Same is true of Canada. How are they doing that?

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ate-by-country
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #10

    Jan 15, 2022, 11:32 AM
    Also maybe worth adding to the mix is looking at training levels of law enforcement officers.
    Wondering if that has any bearing on these rates...
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #11

    Jan 15, 2022, 11:37 AM
    Not only what CurlyBen said, but also, are offenders given rehab training?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #12

    Jan 15, 2022, 12:07 PM
    But more to the point, do other countries employ those practices more that us? Do Canada and Germany, for instance, have better trained police and better rehab training than us? I rather doubt it, but I do wonder about it.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #13

    Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM
    As Shakespeare once said ; The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.(Henry VI).

    The United States has 5% of the world’s people, 25% of its incarcerated people, and 50% of its lawyers. The legal profession is somewhere around 10% of the GDP and most of the politicians making the laws come from that profession.

    The US has 6-12 times as many incarcerated people per capita as Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom; countries with comparable standards of living .

    American prosecutors win 99.5% of their cases, 97% without trials. We may as well have the Red Queen running our system.

    Yes we have a need to overhaul the rehab system. We incarcerate way too many non-violent people. But the system of inane mandatory sentencing combined with the plea bargain system defacto denies the right of presumed innocence.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #14

    Jan 15, 2022, 12:30 PM
    The BBC did a piece on police training not so long back...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56834733
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #15

    Jan 15, 2022, 01:26 PM
    I'd love to see a breakdown of those hours as class work on courses like history or sociology versus law and actual police procedures.

    50% of its lawyers.
    most of the politicians making the laws come from that profession.
    Between those two, you have an enormous part of the problem. There are so many laws now that they can get you on something if they really want to, and especially with tax laws.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Jan 15, 2022, 01:59 PM
    There are so many laws now that they can get you on something if they really want to, and especially with tax laws.
    A long time ago John Stossel made the charge that everyone was a criminal This bridges the political divide and yet half the country doesn't understand that a police state is a natural outcome of a nanny state .
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
    Senior Member
     
    #17

    Jan 15, 2022, 02:15 PM
    Would you guess; there is big money in the department of corrections?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #18

    Jan 23, 2022, 07:46 AM
    could the incarceration rate be rising in proportion to new crimes created by legislation ?

    The Heritage Foundation and George Mason University’s Mercatus Center is counting .


    Count the Code: Quantifying Federalization of Criminal Statutes | The Heritage Foundation


    The researchers created an algorithm with key phrases like “shall be punished” and “shall be fined or imprisoned” to narrow their search of the more than 175,000 pages in the U.S. Code. They found 1,510 criminal sections and estimated that there were about 5,199 crimes in total buried in the Federal code .some “are so vague that . . . no reasonable person could understand what they mean.”
    There were about 36% more criminal sections in 2019 than 25 years earlier.
    Some of the laws are down right bizarre.
    Here are some of the goofiest federal laws still on the books (nypost.com)

    This does not take into account state and local laws that are routinely enforced or not .

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

High heart rate [ 2 Answers ]

Is it bad to have a heart rate running from 100 to 119 at rest

High Pulse rate [ 1 Answers ]

Since last 2 days I am experiencing fast pulse rates or beats in the vein of my left knee and very rarely in my left shoulder. I am 36 yrs old Male and Hyperlipidemic. I do not have any other pains or breathlessness. My BP checked about a month back was normal.

High pulse rate [ 1 Answers ]

Sir The patient's son expired in feb 2012. Since then she is frequently g. etting probllems. Her pulse rate increases frequently. Today again in increased to 104. Blood pressure , sugar etc are normal. She is doing yoga, meditation etc. she has been advised inderal 10 mg BD. Suddenly some thoughts...

Why the high inflation rate? [ 8 Answers ]

Higher prices are on everyone's mind with a lot being said in these threads. So--- what is your collective opinion of the reason for this sudden rise in prices?

High interest rate [ 1 Answers ]

I'm stuck with a high interest mortgage on a mobile home the payoff never goes down so I can't trade because the payoff is more than its worth what should I do


View more questions Search