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    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #101

    Jan 8, 2022, 06:24 AM
    However, considering the nature of a minority of the assembled crowd, such nuances or semantics would be lost.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #102

    Jan 8, 2022, 06:45 AM
    To be incitement the person charged with incitement must intend others to act in a violent manner . American law is clear about that (that pesky 1st Amendment ) From the beginning of this posting I have argued that the one sure way for Trump to end his election challenged was what happened at the Capitol. His supporters in Congress went into CYA mode and became passive sheeple . To this day Sen Ted Cruz falsely called the rioters terrorists;and there was no more a vocal supporter of Trump's election challenges than Cruz.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #103

    Jan 8, 2022, 06:49 AM
    Just shows were their loyalties really lay...
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #104

    Jan 8, 2022, 07:06 AM
    From the beginning of this posting I have argued that the one sure way for Trump to end his election challenged was what happened at the Capitol.
    A person can accuse Trump of being sometimes foolish and have a good point, but to think he was actually encouraging an insurrection is several bridges too far. But prior to Covid, he had it going in the right direction. His mouth and tweets caught up with him in the end.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #105

    Jan 8, 2022, 07:19 AM
    I have no doubt the dufus and his sycophants KNEW some of his supporters would get rowdy and cause trouble, which is why he watched the event with glee and no remorse to this day. Common sense is that it only takes one terrorist to create chaos and confusion and we certainly had more than one present and willing on 1/6.......!

    In addition the dufus has shown he is capable of bad intentions before as his charity and university scams are perfect examples how low he will go to feed his own interest. There are more examples that certainly cannot be ignored as conservatives keep insisting he get the benefit of a doubt. That's my evidence he should not.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #106

    Jan 8, 2022, 07:28 AM
    I have no doubt the dufus and his sycophants KNEW some of his supporters would get rowdy and cause trouble, which is why he watched the event with glee and no remorse to this day.
    You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I don't know of any evidence to support that.

    Common sense is that it only takes one terrorist to create chaos and confusion and we certainly had more than one present and willing on 1/6.......!
    How many were present at Ferguson, or at Portland, or in Kenosha? If there was a terrorist present on 1/6, why hasn't he been charged with that crime?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #107

    Jan 8, 2022, 10:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I don't know of any evidence to support that.
    Carnage...glee...no remorse. Enough evidence for me to form my opinion, as well as the FACTS of past behavior. Don't know what you need but a PREPONDERANCE of those facts should be sufficient for an opinion.

    How many were present at Ferguson, or at Portland, or in Kenosha? If there was a terrorist present on 1/6, why hasn't he been charged with that crime?
    The investigation continues even as some have already made up there minds that there is none.

    Don't know how many terrorist were at those other locations you cited, but I am on record as being for their apprehension, and conviction, and bringing them to justice under the law.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #108

    Jan 9, 2022, 04:07 AM
    Don't know how many terrorist were at those other locations you cited, but I am on record as being for their apprehension, and conviction, and bringing them to justice under the law.
    Kam the Sham ; the VP , raised bail money for them so they could go back to the streets and do more arson ,and violent physical destruction.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #109

    Jan 11, 2022, 02:38 PM
    Ted Cruz questions FBI about agent participation and inciting violence before and during the Jan 6 riot

    Senator Cruz Questions FBI Official About Ray Epps Role in January 6 | C-SPAN.org
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #110

    Jan 11, 2022, 03:15 PM
    Her evasiveness was astonishing, and especially her refusal to answer the question about FBI agents inciting in the criminal activity. That's amazing.

    At the end, when pressed again, she finally said, "Not to my knowledge, sir." Kind of leaves the door open, don't you think?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #111

    Jan 11, 2022, 04:16 PM
    You two are amazing. Epps was a member of a far-right fringe militia group. When he was removed from the FBI list of wanted insurrectionists, the right-wing went into a frenzy declaring he was an agent provocateur working with the FBI. It was a piece of nonsense believed only by the likes of Ted Cruz who had been chastened by the new leader Tucker Carlson - a classic case of weird theories to get as much of the limelight as possible. It gets stranger and stranger day by day. Google for the details.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #112

    Jan 11, 2022, 04:42 PM
    you treat Google as some kind of secular bible. Google;s algorisms bury search results that are inconvenient to the swamp narrative. They have gone from the mission of “organizing the world’s information,” to one that decides which information should be prominent ., Google keeps blacklists to remove certain sites and information from surfacing. These moves are separate from those that block sites required by U.S. or foreign law, Anti trust regulators of both parties have Google in their cross hairs along with the other Big tech monopolies .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #113

    Jan 11, 2022, 04:42 PM
    You two are amazing.
    Thank you for the compliment!!

    I never said a word about Epps.

    If what you say is true, then why wouldn't the lady have simply said that? If you know it, then I'm pretty sure a lot of people know it. Why not simply answer the question and make Cruz look stupid in the process? Why the evasiveness?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #114

    Jan 11, 2022, 04:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    you treat Google as some kind of secular bible. Google;s algorisms bury search results that are inconvenient to the swamp narrative. They have gone from the mission of “organizing the world’s information,” to one that decides which information should be prominent ., Google keeps blacklists to remove certain sites and information from surfacing. These moves are separate from those that block sites required by U.S. or foreign law, Anti trust regulators of both parties have Google in their cross hairs along with the other Big tech monopolies .
    You are missing the point. tomder. A bit of deflection?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    If what you say is true, then why wouldn't the lady have simply said that? If you know it, then I'm pretty sure a lot of people know it. Why not simply answer the question and make Cruz look stupid in the process? Why the evasiveness?
    Seek (google) and you shall find. It's all there for the searching. Cruz can't be made to look any more stupid than he already is.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #115

    Jan 11, 2022, 04:50 PM
    Why was Epps removed from the FBI wanted list when there is video of him egging on rioters ;including suggesting to one that he should remove a barrier to the Capitol building ?

    The January 6 committee : Ray were you working for the FBI ?
    Epps No

    The January 6 committee .... ok then you are absolved.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #116

    Jan 12, 2022, 03:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It is not my job to verify the wild claims of someone else. Period. And especially someone who seems to have no ability at all to verify his own claims.
    It is your responsibility to fact check everybody, for a reasonable discussion. Otherwise you come across as a dismissive arrogant hypocrite hiding behind a call for evidence that could well destroy any credibility on whatever point you make. Maybe a good way to hide ones agenda or intentions but a lousy way to foster healthy debate based on facts and not just feelings. Conservatives can't own the libs in such a climate, but it's fun to watch your heads explode from the confusion of your own ideology which appears to be supporting a lying cheating loser who was booted from the WH by the people after repubs failed to act twice.

    Fact check that.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #117

    Jan 12, 2022, 04:03 AM
    Cruz asked specific questions to Jill Sanborn that she refused to answer .
    How many FBI assets actively participated in the protest ? She cited protocol.
    Did any FBI assets participate in violent acts or do anything unlawful ? She refused to answer . After showing evidence of Epps inciting the attack on the Capitol he asked if she knew him . She dodged.“I’m aware of the individual, sir, I don’t have the specific background to him,”

    She would not respond to the question if he was a Fed .She declined to answer.

    We know from a Newsweek investigation that the Justice Department stationed elite FBI forces at the FBI training academy in Quantico the weekend beforeJanuary 6; hundreds of agents were deployed to the Capitol grounds that morning.
    They had the authority to shoot to kill
    Exclusive: Secret Commandos with Shoot-to-Kill Authority Were at the Capitol (newsweek.com)

    The Slimes already reported that FBI assets infiltrated groups like Proud Boys and participated in the initial breach of the Capitol.

    An FBI Informant Marched Into the Capitol on Jan. 6 Riot - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

    It is reasonable that these denials and obfuscations are covering up a larger participation than they admit . What ? The FBI doing something to undermine Trump and tie him to an attempt to overthrow the government ? <sarc> Hard to believe </sarc>
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #118

    Jan 12, 2022, 04:40 AM
    Meanwhile Robert Byrd ;the Capitol police officer who executed Ashli Babbett with a point blank shot as she entered the Capitol was cleared in what amounted to a 'white wash' investigation .

    After Byrd declined to cooperate with D.C MPD Internal Affairs Division’s investigation, which was led by Det. John Hendrick, his case eventually was turned over to the USCP for a final administrative review of whether or not his actions conformed with department policies and training.
    Still, USCP concluded in August that “the officer’s conduct was lawful and within department policy.” The agency launched its administrative investigation after the criminal investigation was closed.
    In April, within four months of the shooting, Byrd was cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the Justice Department, which declined to impanel a grand jury to hear evidence in a departure from other lethal police-shooting cases involving unarmed citizens.Justice ruled there “was not enough evidence” to conclude Byrd violated Babbitt’s civil rights or willfully acted recklessly in shooting her.
    Byrd remains the commander in charge of security for the House of Representatives.
    Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department would comment on whether they pressed Byrd after he insisted on remaining silent.
    Cop Who Killed Ashli Babbitt Was Cleared of Criminal Wrongdoing Without Interview | RealClearInvestigations
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #119

    Jan 12, 2022, 05:17 AM
    Gotta love the way you spun one informant into hundreds of shoot to kill FBI agents breaking windows to frame the dufus. Your good.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Meanwhile Robert Byrd ;the Capitol police officer who executed Ashli Babbett with a point blank shot as she entered the Capitol was cleared in what amounted to a 'white wash' investigation .



    Cop Who Killed Ashli Babbitt Was Cleared of Criminal Wrongdoing Without Interview | RealClearInvestigations
    Now you want to investigate a cop shooting a civilian? Really?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #120

    Jan 12, 2022, 05:26 AM
    I think all cops shootings need investigation . That most are justified does not change that . Cases where use of force is unjustified like Eric DeValkenaere's murder of Cameron Lamb or Kim Potter's killing of Daunte Wright should be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Other cases where the shooting was justified, the decision should be respected.

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