[Wondergirl]

So? Are we to be racially prejudiced about such things?

Are they racially prejudiced?

[jlisenbe]

Not that I know of, though in my experience most people, probably including you and me, harbor some racial prejudices of some sort.

But we are going astray. I'd still like to know who you were thinking about when you, in reference to evangelicals, said, "never referring to efforts to bring the Gospel to unbelievers?"

You also did not comment on your VERY racially segregated church affiliation.

"You do realize the vast majority of Lutherans are white? They are, in fact, considerably less diverse than the SBC crowd. How are Lutherans addressing that?"

[Wondergirl]

You do realize the vast majority of Lutherans are white?

Yes, that is true. Black Lutherans, partly because of their energetic style of praise and worship (vs. the dour, unemotional German white version), have formed their own congregations and attached schools. I was very fortunate in the '60s to do my student teaching at a Black Lutheran school in a Chicago neighborhood. Above the altar was a magnificent statue of a Black Jesus.

[jlisenbe]

So how are Lutherans addressing that? You seemed to be critical of the SBC folks but very tolerant of segregation amongst your own church. Is that a fair analysis?

[Athos]

Now if...if...if you can document where I have lied, plagiarized, changed horses in midstream, or claimed that snakes talk, then we can discuss it.

It is up to you to prove that you haven't.

Have you so soon forgotten that it has been YOUR demand for others to prove a negative? Have you forgotten that you consistently challenged others to prove something by quoting where in scripture it can be found? Have you forgotten that you stated here in black and white than snakes talk?

Remember that what you have posted in these pages will never go away and will haunt you whenever you deny what you have written.

You want to discuss these things. What is there to discuss? Your denying them just adds to your bed of lies. Lie down in it if you wish.

You use scripture like a weapon to impale anyone you disagree with. Remember that Satan can quote scripture just like you do.

Rather can continuing to deflect from the questions you so love when they fit into your skewed commentary, here they are again for YOU to answer now that they put you on the spot where you find it uncomfortable so you deny and lie.

Where in scripture does it say you are not a plagiarist. Prove that you're not a plagiarist. You claim you are not - prove it.

[jlisenbe]

Where Athos has plagiarized.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...95#post3873195

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...64#post3875864

Now if...if...if you can document where I have lied, plagiarized, changed horses in midstream, or claimed that snakes talk, then we can discuss it. Until then, as I said earlier, case closed.

You do get the award for the absolutely most bizarre question in AMHD history. "Where in scripture does it say you are not a plagiarist." And you amplified the decidedly peculiar nature of the question by asking it 3 times.

Go on all you want. Until you document as I did of you, the case is closed.


BTW, I have never asked you to prove a negative. That's another one you would have to document for me to believe. Why do these unsubstantiated and false allegations seem to be a habit with you? Is it somehow linked to your willingness to plagiarize?

[Athos]

Why do these unsubstantiated and false allegations seem to be a habit with you?

Unsubstantiated? False?

Then it should be child's play for you to prove from scripture that you are not a plagiarist. If not scripture, then prove you are not a plagiarist from any source your heart desires.

How does that dish taste when it is served to you?

[jlisenbe]

This has become past ridiculous. I called you out for plagiarizing which you clearly did. Instead of simply saying that plagiarism on an obscure website visited by never more than a half dozen people is not a big problem, a position I would likely have agreed with, instead we get such childish nonsense as you have posted above. You have been able to document nothing, so I'll leave you in your vain search of the Bible to see if it mentions anything about a person in the 21st century committing plagiarism, a search which you can be assured will be undertaken by no one else on the face of the earth and wisely so. Perhaps you should ponder that. Good luck.

I had hoped WG would continue the conversation about evangelicals and the almost entirely white Lutheran church, but I suppose that won't take place. Too bad. It was interesting.

[Wondergirl]

So how are Lutherans addressing that? You seemed to be critical of the SBC folks but very tolerant of segregation amongst your own church. Is that a fair analysis?

I'm not critical of the SBC folks, no more than the LCMS dour German Lutherans. SB worship styles are actually much closer to Black worship styles than Lutheran are. Thus, to attract non-whites, a new more all-inclusive Lutheran church body, the ELCA, was formed in 1988.

Wikipedia:
The word Southern in "Southern Baptist Convention" stems from its having been organized in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the Southern United States who split with northern Baptists (known today as the American Baptist Churches USA) over the issue of slavery, with Southern Baptists strongly opposed to its abolition.^[4] After the American Civil War, another split occurred when most freedmen set up independent black congregations, regional associations, and state and national conventions, such as the National Baptist Convention, which became the second-largest Baptist convention by the end of the 19th century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sout...ist_Convention

I had hoped WG would continue the conversation about evangelicals and the almost entirely white Lutheran church, but I suppose that won't take place. Too bad. It was interesting.

WG was busy with, among other activities, eating her dinner. Why so negative?

[jlisenbe]

WG was busy with, among other activities, eating her dinner. Why so negative?

Didn't mean to come across negative. You had just seemed to drop out. That's all. No harm intended.

I think most of the vastly majority white protestant organizations are trying, to some degree, to reach other groups. It's not going to be easy. The drug rehab outfit I go to on Sunday mornings is overwhelmingly white but we do have some black men. Everyone seems to mix together well enough.

If you didn't intend to be critical of the SBC folks, then why did you post your quote about the unsavory beginnings of the SBC? At any rate, the SBC had it's racist past at about the same time as the Democrat party. Oh well.

[Wondergirl]

Didn't mean to come across negative. You had just seemed to drop out. That's all. No harm intended.

It hadn't been that long!!!!

I think most of the vastly majority white protestant organizations are trying, to some degree, to reach other groups. It's not going to be easy. The drug rehab outfit I go to on Sunday mornings is overwhelmingly white but we do have some black men. Everyone seems to mix together well enough.

Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of. Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear.

If you didn't intend to be critical of the SBC folks, then why did you post your quote about the unsavory beginnings of the SBC? At any rate, the SBC had it's racist past at about the same time as the Democrat party. Oh well.

Some of them are still white, racist Republicans. And don't forget about the two parties flip-flopping ideologies.

[jlisenbe]

Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of. Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear.

I doubt that to be the case. Grievances don't disappear simply because someone walks through a door.

Some of them are still white, racist Republicans. And don't forget about the two parties flip-flopping ideologies.

Strange how you confine racism to whites only and repubs only. Very strange indeed. Biden has made racist remarks. HC made racist remarks. Sharpton is a major league racist. So is Jesse Jackson. All of them are...dems!!

[Wondergirl]

I doubt that to be the case. Grievances don't disappear simply because someone walks through a door.

Work in public libraries for thirty years. Then we will talk. A black teenager would hold the door open for a Chinese grandmother and also for a Latina pushing a baby stroller. A fat, bald white guy would help pick up the books a Black child.dropped.

Strange how you confine racism to whites only and repubs only.

I didn't. And I was born and raised among them, went to their SBC VBS every summer. Again, don't forget the flip-flop.

[jlisenbe]

Work in public libraries for thirty years. Then we will talk. A black teenager would hold the door open for a Chinese grandmother and also for a Latina pushing a baby stroller. A fat, bald white guy would help pick up the books a Black child.dropped.

I could say the same thing about working in schools for 34 years. But the things you described certainly don't indicate a dropping of grievances among everyone who just walked through the doors.

I didn't. And I was born and raised among them, went to their SBC VBS every summer. Again, don't forget the flip-flop.

Of course you did. You were very specific about whites and repubs being racists. "Some of them are still white, racist Republicans." And if a flip flop resulted in the lowest unemployment amongst blacks in history, then we sure need more flip flops!! The only black SCOTUS justice was appointed by a repub. First black woman elected to statewide office in Virginia is a repub. First black woman as NSA was a repub. First black chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and first black Secretary of State was a repub. Yep. Hooray for flip-flops!

And then there is Joe Biden.

1. Biden lectured about the fears that blacks may have of the vaccine, attempting to point to historically shameful episodes when they were subjected to inhumane medical experiments. “They are used to being experimented on—the Tuskegee Airmen and others,” Biden said. In this, he confused legendary World War II fighter pilots with a long, notorious governmental study of syphilis among black men—the Tuskegee Experiment which was, incidentally, conducted by a democrat administration.

2. In 2007, he referred to Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.”
3. In 2006, he said, “You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.”
4. Way back in 1977, he said that forced busing to desegregate schools would cause his children to “grow up in a racial jungle.”
5. And, of course, who could forget this? "At a campaign event in Iowa, Biden told supporters “poor kids are just as bright and talented as white kids.” He quickly corrected himself after some applause by adding: “Wealthy kids, black kids, Asian kids.”

https://www.heritage.org/progressivi...racist-remarks

[Athos]

You have been able to document nothing

It is not my job to document anything - it is your job to prove exactly where in scripture it says that you are not guilty of plagiarism. You say you are not a plagiarist- so prove it outside of scripture. How many times will you refuse to prove you are not a plagiarist?

Hint: Google the goose and the gander.

[jlisenbe]

It is not my job to document anything

You cannot document what amounts to nothing more than conjecture. It's why I said, "Ill-informed opinion. Nothing more."

[Wondergirl]

I could say the same thing about working in schools for 34 years. But the things you described certainly don't indicate a dropping of grievances among everyone who just walked through the doors.

When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped. I never heard or heard about, saw, or was involved in a heated argument, fistfight, shooting while inside library walls. And part of our training was learning how to avoid and prevent any outburst from occurring.

[jlisenbe]

Grievances are held in the heart. You have no access to their hearts.

[Wondergirl]

Grievances are held in the heart. You have no access to their hearts.

Why are you being so negative? This is why I disappear.

The library gives them a place to put those grievances aside. Healing can begin.

[jlisenbe]

You say you want a discussion. That’s what this is. Disagreement is not negativity.