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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #1

    Sep 29, 2021, 06:41 AM
    Why would health care workers rather be fired than take a vaccine ?
    They were on the front line of the pandemic . They risked their lives treating patients .But many are refusing the jab. And the press doesn't give them prominent places in their coverage for them to explain their concerns. Shouldn’t we hear from some of them directly ?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #2

    Sep 29, 2021, 08:51 AM
    "Many experts attribute low vaccination rates among staff to an information problem. Indeed, a recent survey of nursing home caregivers suggests many staff worry about vaccine safety and side effects. Yet, major information campaigns including well-crafted toolkits and fact sheets have not been sufficient. The problem isn’t just a lack of information, but also who delivers this information. Direct caregivers in long-term care may lack information about the vaccine, but they also lack trust in facility leadership."
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2021021721967

    "[A social services worker in Georgia] said she doesn't have a problem with vaccines. She gets the flu shot every year. 'I've been vaccinated all my life,' she says. But she doesn't view COVID-19 vaccination in the same way. 'I want to see more testing done,' she says. 'It took a long time to get a flu vaccine, and we made a COVID vaccine in 6 months. I want to know, before I start putting something into my body, that the testing is done.'

    Staff at her hospital were given the option to be vaccinated or wear a mask. She chose the mask. Many of her co-workers share her feelings, she said."
    https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...spital-workers

    My niece-in-law refuses to be vaccinated, is a nurse practitioner in a metropolitan area, is firmly conservative/Republican, and says God will protect her.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #3

    Sep 29, 2021, 09:43 AM
    I was in NY last week . They are going to bring in health care providers from out of state to handle the shortage of staff that would rather lose their jobs than get the vax . I dismiss the charge of ignorance out of hand .

    I also don't think that there is a huge percentage of them with religious objections . Conservator /Republican is frankly irrelevant to the discussion unless you want to add people like Kam the Sham who wasn't going to get jabbed because it was a Trump vaccine . And I really don't want a religious discussion .
    The worker you cite who has concerns because the rush to make it may have a valid point . MRNA is a relatively new technology .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #4

    Sep 29, 2021, 11:59 AM
    also Harvard blogs and Web MD although impressive resources , do not represent the American press in any significant way. Why haven't the fired health care workers shown up on the evening news giving their side of the story ? They were front line in the beginning of the pandemic when some patients were housed in tents in Central Park . They were the heroes being championed by the press .Front line "essential " employees showed up to work when there was no vaccine. Others stayed home and got paid. Now thousands of the front line workers are losing their jobs rather than get jabbed . I think we should here from them ,

    Today the Slimes reported that the threat of them losing their jobs was an effective strategery . But why the hesitancy from people presumably most educated about the dangers of the virus ?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #5

    Sep 29, 2021, 12:23 PM
    I googled "healthcare workers refuse vaccination" and pulled up a bunch of sites:

    ***The countdown begins for unvaccinated employees at Memorial Medical Center in Las Cruces to either get their shot or be “taken off the schedule.”

    Tanya Gonzalez and Daniela Zamora are part of the 13 percent of Memorial Medical Center employees who have made the choice not to get vaccinated.

    “Just not knowing the long-term effects, in three to five years we really don’t know what this vaccine is going to do,” Gonzalez said.
    Both women feel they should have the right to choose.***
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ate/ar-AANHP9B

    ***A Duke U. Health employee:
    "I just feel like there should be more time with the vaccine to see how it’s really going to pan out,” she said. “I just felt like I had questions about the vaccine, that I wasn’t getting answers to. I just feel uncomfortable putting that in my body knowing there are still unknowns.”***
    https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-new...id-19-vaccine/
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #6

    Sep 29, 2021, 01:04 PM
    I agree with them that they should have the freedom to choose
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #7

    Sep 29, 2021, 01:08 PM
    I wonder what happened to, "My body, my choice?"

    “Just not knowing the long-term effects, in three to five years we really don’t know what this vaccine is going to do,” Gonzalez said.
    Both women feel they should have the right to choose.***
    Seems logical to me.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #8

    Sep 29, 2021, 01:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I agree with them that they should have the freedom to choose
    But if they are hired to interact with, care for sick or elderly people who are especially susceptible to covid, wouldn't their supervisors or the hospital's/nursing home's board have the final say as to their employment?

    Then, they can, like my niece-in-law did, go job hunting!
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #9

    Sep 29, 2021, 03:27 PM
    Woo woo! The WaPo sent me this article (but I no longer subscribe and can't read the remainder of this article):
    How wellness influencers are fueling the anti-vaccine movement

    By Ashley Fetters Maloy and Gerrit De Vynck
    Glance at Jessica Alix Hesser’s Instagram page and you may feel a little like you’ve just opened up a pamphlet for a meditation retreat. Amid photos of lagoons and a waterfall, Hesser (eyes closed, one hand touching the side of her face) is awash in rainbow-hued lens glare or soaking in a bath with flowers floating on top. Her website contains blog posts recommending natural cardamom floss and Gregorian chants.
    Sprinkled throughout, however, are posts where Hesser urges her nearly 37,000 followers to question the safety of the coronavirus vaccines. “Would you sign your children up to be part of a pharmaceutical trial and take them into a lab to get shot up with some experimental drug created by a criminal company?” she asks in one June post. In another from April, she writes that “many of you have heard about the large number of poke-free women” experiencing changes in their menstrual cycles “after spending time with people who got the jab.” Medical experts say that’s impossible. Hesser did not respond to requests for comment.
    For many, the term “misinformation” conjures up images of conspiracy-theory chat forums and Russian bots. But an alarming amount of it is reaching audiences in the health and wellness realms. Read more.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #10

    Sep 29, 2021, 03:51 PM
    The unvaccinated healthcare workers also managed to avoid Covid for the last 18 months while working in the most likely places to catch the virus. They must be doing something right. Or they had covid and have natural immunity . Subject them to testing but don't deny them their jobs . They have earned them .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #11

    Sep 29, 2021, 04:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The unvaccinated healthcare workers also managed to avoid Covid for the last 18 months while working in the most likely places to catch the virus. They must be doing something right. Or they had covid and have natural immunity . Subject them to testing but don't deny them their jobs . They have earned them .
    Yeah, they had masks on. Did you think they treated covid patients without masks?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #12

    Sep 29, 2021, 06:12 PM
    Masks are a pretty minimal defense against spreading Covid (short of the N-95s), but filtering your breathing is far removed from having something injected into your body.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #13

    Sep 29, 2021, 06:28 PM
    Solution: take ivermectin! It's worked its magic (on parasites) for several decades!
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #14

    Sep 29, 2021, 06:58 PM
    I wore N95s at work for 30 years . When covid swept through our plant April 2020 we had many serious cases and a death . I was one of the serious cases . I was out of work for a month with 3 weeks of serious symptoms .

    From discussions with health care providers I know ,most most hospitals issue surgical or medical grade paper masks which do not filter air particles as good as N95 . No matter which mask they do not completely prevent the emission of small respiratory droplets the size that carry covid . That also assumes that everyone is wearing the masks properly .

    So yeah I applaud them for their efforts . I can say that it is no fun walking around with a proper mask on all day long at work .... and don't get me started with respirators when producing sterile products . Suiting up for that is a blast .

    I would like to see data on how often has a health care worker infected a patient as opposed to ...oh ...how often breakthrough cases of providers after vax . Assuming that contact tracing happens that should be easy to find . I would think that a testing regimen with proper use of PPE ,and proper ventilation at facilities should be sufficient to reduce the risks . As with masks ,the vax is mostly a defense for oneself . Even the idea that masking during surgery to prevent the patient from getting wound infections is an unproven assumption ,
    Disposable surgical face masks for preventing surgical wound infection in clean surgery | Cochrane

    Proper care should be taken when dealing with the high risk patients WG spoke of . But push comes to shove I trust the providers much more than the pols that packed them into facilities like cattle to the slaughter .

    Solution: take ivermectin! It's worked its magic for several decades!
    I would take that as a treatment in a nano-second . I also have considered it as a preventive . Hard to get though .Doctors are prescribing but pharmacies aren't stocking .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #15

    Sep 30, 2021, 02:05 PM
    CDC estimates 100 million Americans have now survived Covid. Studies show that the natural immunity of Covid survivors is at least as good as that acquired through the vax if not better. So why would those people be required to get vaxed?

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.21262415v1
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #16

    Sep 30, 2021, 02:19 PM
    What about those who have never had Covid and have never been vaxed?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #17

    Sep 30, 2021, 03:12 PM
    Testing is the logical alternative . Those unvaxed are subject to periodic tests . Nothing is 100% guaranteed . I still have not seen stats where unvaxed healthcare workers pose a threat ....only assumptions
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #18

    Oct 2, 2021, 04:41 AM
    WG "Solution: take ivermectin! It's worked its magic (on parasites) for several decades!"
    Tom "I would take that as a treatment in a nano-second . I also have considered it as a preventive . Hard to get though .Doctors are prescribing but pharmacies aren't stocking ."
    Merck claims it has a new experimental Covid-19 pill that cuts the risk of death and hospitalization by half.Merck is the same manufacturer that produces Ivermectin.Ivermectin is extremely cheap.Wonder what the cost of this "new experimental" drug will be ??????????????

    Reportedly $700 for the full regimen. U.S. taxpayer already have a $1.2 Billion purchase order.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #19

    Oct 2, 2021, 05:16 AM
    Taking the vax is probably the best strategy. It's hard to determine how effective Ivermectin is since there is so much controversy about it. One thing we can be sure of. Big Pharm wants to make money and will push the more expensive and profitable alternative.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #20

    Oct 2, 2021, 09:07 AM
    Warp Speed solution by Trump?

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