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jlisenbe · Dec 6, 2021, 04:51 PM

Clear, plain text. They are simply there for you to accept or reject.

John 6:44. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65. And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

John 3:3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Wondergirl · Dec 6, 2021, 04:56 PM

Now tell me, why do Bible verses contradict each other?

jlisenbe · Dec 6, 2021, 04:59 PM

They don't.

Wondergirl · Dec 6, 2021, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

They don't.

Um, see examples above.

jlisenbe · Dec 6, 2021, 05:05 PM

I did. They don't. Besides, you claimed I was twisting the words of Christ because, I suppose, He does not agree with your opinion. Well, if you still hold to that position, then there is no contradiction.

I did. They don't. Besides, you claimed I was twisting the words of Christ because, I suppose, He does not agree with your opinion. Well, if you still hold to that position, then there is no contradiction.

Wondergirl · Dec 6, 2021, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I did. They don't. Besides, you claimed I was twisting the words of Christ

Why are you saying (twice???) that the verses I cherry-picked (NOT my opinion) don't support the opposite of what you claim, that my quoted verses are not inspired scripture, are not the words of Christ?

jlisenbe · Dec 6, 2021, 07:45 PM

don't support the opposite of what you claim

They certainly do not support your argument.

, that my quoted verses are not inspired scripture,

They are inspired.

are not the words of Christ?

They were not the words of Christ. They are the word of God, however.

Your passages are not, in my view, cherry-picked. They simply don't support the idea that man can come to God without being drawn of God. They don't say that at all.

Wondergirl · Dec 6, 2021, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

They certainly do not support your argument.

Of course, they do! As well as yours do.

They are inspired.

Yes, I agree, the verses I posted are inspired. (Reading and comprehension problems again?)

They were not the words of Christ. They are the word of God, however.

You want Jesus' words? Like this?

Matt. 7:7-8 -- Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

jlisenbe · Dec 6, 2021, 08:28 PM

Reading comp is not the problem. You asked if I was questioning the inspiration of your quoted scriptures, or if I considered them not to be the words of Christ. I simply stated they were inspired (correct) and they were NOT the words of Christ (also correct).

You have posted five scriptures. Which one explicitly states that a person can come to God without first being drawn by God? Bear in mind that my passages DID explicitly state that no man could come to Christ without being first drawn to Him by God.

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

my passages DID explicitly state that no man could come to Christ without being first drawn to Him by God.

So if God's not interested in drawing someone to Him, that person is s*** out of luck?

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

the words of Christ. I simply stated they were inspired (correct) and they were NOT the words of Christ (also correct).

Why do they have to be the words of Christ?

jlisenbe · Dec 7, 2021, 12:38 PM

So if God's not interested in drawing someone to Him, that person is s*** out of luck?

Why do you always get mad when the Bible does not agree with you?

Why do they have to be the words of Christ?

Who said they did?

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why do you always get mad when the Bible does not agree with you?

Huh? You didn't get my sarcasm toward your (not God's) comments?

2. Who said they did?

You did. (Inspired scriptures aren't good enough....)

jlisenbe · Dec 7, 2021, 01:40 PM

You did. (Inspired scriptures aren't good enough....)

Total lie. I never said that.

"...that person is s*** out of luck?"

Anger. Always happens when you find the Bible does not support your views.

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Total lie. I never said that.

Not in so many words.

Anger. Always happens when you find the Bible does not support your views.

Even you agree the verses I posted are from the Bible and were inspired. And they do say someone can come to God without God coming to him first.

jlisenbe · Dec 7, 2021, 01:58 PM

Not in any words. Total lie. You could have simply said you were mistaken, but now you can't even use that.

And they do say someone can come to God without God coming to him first.

Post just one. None of them said the underlined part.

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not in any words. Total lie. You could have simply said you were mistaken, but now you can't even use that.

Post #257: You said, "None of those say that we can come to God without Him first calling us. However, these passages ALL say that no one can come to God unless God first reaches out to that person. The first three come from Christ Himself. It is hard to imagine how He could have put it much clearer."

jlisenbe · Dec 7, 2021, 02:46 PM

You claimed I said, "Inspired scriptures aren't good enough...." Neither those words nor that idea are anywhere to be found in the post you copied. The idea of inspiration is not even discussed. The post was clearly about the plain message of the various texts. I even said later that your passages are inspired, but they don't say what you claim they do.

Shame on you. Is it that hard to simply say you were wrong? Good grief. It all seems to come down to your frustration over not being able to find support for your views. You might as well just admit it. It is painfully apparent and difficult to watch.

Athos · Dec 7, 2021, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It is painfully apparent.

What is painfully apparent is this from WG

Post #257: You said, "None of those say that we can come to God without Him first calling us. However, these passages ALL say that no one can come to God unless God first reaches out to that person. The first three come from Christ Himself. It is hard to imagine how He could have put it much clearer."

Where is waltero when we need him?

Wondergirl · Dec 7, 2021, 03:13 PM

Again --
Prov. 8:17: I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

Acts17:27: God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Heb. 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

James 4:8: Come near to God and he will come near to you.

You want Jesus' words? Like this?

Matt. 7:7-8 -- Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.