[jlisenbe]

I congratulate you. You have now posted, for the third time, several passages which do NOT say that we can come to God without Him calling us. They certainly encourage us to come to God, but do not mention who moves first, us or God. So yes, I must give you credit for being persistent. Persistently wrong, sadly, but persistent nonetheless.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." There is the answer. It does not contradict your passages, but adds the information yours do not directly address. All of God, all inspired, and all true.

The issue is settled. All that is left is for you to simply accept what the Bible plainly says. Alas, I am not hopeful in that regard, but I do pray you surprise me.

[Wondergirl]

The issue is settled. All that is left is for you to simply accept what the Bible plainly says. Alas, I am not hopeful in that regard, but I do pray you surprise me.

You're wrong. The Bible has many, many passages similar to the ones I posted. Give up, Charlie.

[jlisenbe]

Charlene, I'm certain you can find many passages similar to the ones you posted. I'm speaking, of course, of passages which do not support your belief, as your complete inability to find even one which tells us that man can come to God without God calling him shows. Since Jesus is not good enough for you, I'll let you sort it out. Either He's wrong, or you're wrong.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." And bear in mind He said it TWICE, and not just once, and perhaps for your very benefit??

[Wondergirl]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." And bear in mind He said it TWICE, and not just once, and perhaps for your very benefit??

So Jesus thereby negates all those other inspired passages.

[jlisenbe]

This has been explained to you in 281. Be intentionally obtuse if you want to. I'm done. Find a passage that clearly says man can move to God without God first moving to man and we can move on.

[Wondergirl]

This has been explained to you in 281. Be intentionally obtuse if you want to. I'm done. Find a passage that clearly says man can move to God without God first moving to man and we can move on.

Prov. 8:17: I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

Acts 17:27: God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Heb. 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

James 4:8: Come near to God and he will come near to you.

Matt. 7:7-8 -- Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Hebrews 11.

[jlisenbe]

Not being stupid, you are simply being nutty. Find a passage that clearly says man can move to God without God first moving to man and we can move on. In other words, the opposite of the one that clearly says man CANNOT move to God without God first bidding him. "No man comes to me unless the Father draws him."

Do you understand now? Is that clear enough for you???

[Wondergirl]

Not being stupid, you are simply being nutty. Find a passage that clearly says man can move to God without God first moving to man and we can move on.

Do you speak and read English?

[jlisenbe]

Yes and yes. It's why your nonsense won't work here.

[Wondergirl]

Yes and yes. It's why your nonsense won't work here.

And your narrow-minded fundamentalism doesn't wash here.

[waltero]

Hey, Walter. A thought just hit me. How do you define, "the love of God"? Maybe that is where we are missing each other. What is your definition of the term?

I am God's Love.

You said, "I am God's love." I replied, "Are you saying that when the Bible refers to God's love, it is specifically referring to Waltero?" That would seem to be the logical conclusion of you saying, "I (Waltero) am God's love." So how does this reply of yours answer the question? "Yes...it takes God's love to love God."

It can't be explained. All I know is; I am God's Love...knowing, God needs me!

"We cannot reach out to Him first?"

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone should hear My voice and open the door, then I will come in...

I would say that everybody hears Him knocking. Only until you hear his voice will you open the door to Salvation.

[jlisenbe]

It can't be explained. All I know is; I am God's Love...knowing, God needs me!

Where in the Bible do you find that God needs you? Just asking.

[waltero]

Dear Walter, you are disgracing yourself. John 3:16 clearly says that "God so loved the world". Who? "The world."

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Main Points For/so : These are link words expanding or explaining something that was said earlier. Context : We need to look at the preceeding verses 14 and 15. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” This refers to an event in Numbers 21:4-9. God was angry with the Israelites because of their sin of ingratitude. So God sent poisonous snakes which killed many of them. So they cried out to God. God refused to take the snakes away but told Moses to erect a bronze snake on a pole so that when the people who had been bitten looked at the snake they would not die. God provided a way of escape. Thus, in the same way . . . . . . v 16. Loved : past tense. (Not “loves”) Agape love – a love of action, that responds to a need.

Where in the Bible do you find that God needs you? Just asking.

God created all that exists...Created Darkness/Sin.
God had to separate himself (Darkness) from his creation in order for free will?
God "needed" to conquer Sin...who would God need in order to conquer Sin?
God Added to himself???

God/Jesus, doesn't need friends ;-)
God doesn't need Angels?
God doesn't need Humanity?
God Doesnt need Jesus (Body)?


I tried to keep it short and simple.

[jlisenbe]

I asked where the Bible says that God needs you, and of course really meaning man in general. A series of rhetorical questions does not answer that.

Truth is, the Bible never says God "needs" anything or anyone. He is completely self-sufficient. He desires us, but does not need us.

Exodus 3:14. God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”


John 5:26. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;


Acts 17:24. The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;


Revelation 1:8. “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

[waltero]

Okay, bro, God doesn't need you...what are you gonna do now?I spoke with God and he told me he needed me, I have a purpose now.
God needs me, not in the way you think he needs me.

John 5:26. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;

You God it! Jesus is 100% man (Body, aka flesh). It's the life that is From God. Same with all of humanity.
It's not about Walter, it has nothing to do with me. I have died to self and water no longer is... it's the "Life" that lives in Walter's body now...that same life that comes from GOD/Jesus.

Okay, bro, God doesn't need you...what are you gonna do now? I spoke with God and he told me he needed me, I have a purpose now.
God needs me, not in the way you think he needs me.

John 5:26. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;

You God it! Jesus is 100% man (Body, aka flesh). It's the life that is From God. Same with all of humanity.
It's not about Walter, it has nothing to do with me. I have died to self and water no longer is... it's the "Life" that lives in Walter's body now...that same life that comes from GOD/Jesus.

Just because you feel God doesn't need you doesn't mean he doesn't need anybody.

I really hate this site!!!!!! I have to log in every 2 minutes, why???

Not able to edit!

Later

[jlisenbe]

Just because you feel God doesn't need you

Has nothing to do with feelings. "Need" does not equate to "love".

I simply asked if you could point to a place in the Bible where it says God "needs" you or anything else.

I'm not trying to mess with your faith. The love of God is amazing. It satisfies our needs on a deep level and is far beyond amazing. I just take issue with the idea that God needs us. He managed to make it without us over all of the ages of eternity, so that would sure seem to say that He does not need us. He is completely self-sufficient. Israel might have thought God needed them, but He was completely prepared to wipe them out and start over with Moses in Exodus 32:10.

Perhaps I am not understanding your meaning when you say God "needs" you.

Also not sure what you mean in saying that Jesus is 100% man. Are you saying He is not God but man only?

[waltero]

Perhaps I am not understanding your meaning when you say God "needs" you.

When I say; "God needs me." It is not in the way we think "God needs us, per se." You are not to understand the need God has for "me" in as much as you might want to try and understand the need God has for (in) you?

If you don't understand God has a need for you, there is no way you will understand his need that lives in me.
I need not try to explain any further.

When I say; "I am God's love"? I believe that I am to be filled with the life of Christ and express God's love. Christ is God's love - is he not?
We are the Body of Christ??

Acts 17:24 - The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands

And: Exodus 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them...

Exodus 25:2 - Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me (God doesn't need?) an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart...To build the temple that God will dwell among them.

Also not sure what you mean in saying that Jesus is 100% man.

Are you saying He is not God but a man only?

Typical response.
Why should you assume that? I guarantee, anybody who says "Jesus is God," will never get a reaction, such as - Are you saying God is not a man?

Believing that Jesus is God and man somewhat alleviates the Man factor. When I say Jesus is 100% man, I'm saying he is just like you and me!
Yes, including the SIn!!! Jesus took on our Sin. The Body was the Body of man the life is the life of God.

John 5:26. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so, He gave to the Son (Mortal body) also to have life in Himself;

And Jesus gave us that same life in our Mortal bodies.

[waltero]

Can we stick to one topic?

Dear Walter, you are disgracing yourself. John 3:16 clearly says that "God so loved the world". Who? "The world."
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Main Points For/so : These are link words expanding or explaining something that was said earlier. Context : We need to look at the preceeding verses 14 and 15. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” This refers to an event in Numbers 21:4-9. God was angry with the Israelites because of their sin of ingratitude. So God sent poisonous snakes which killed many of them. So they cried out to God. God refused to take the snakes away but told Moses to erect a bronze snake on a pole so that when the people who had been bitten looked at the snake they would not die. God provided a way of escape. Thus, in the same way . . . . . . v 16. Loved : past tense. (Not “loves”) Agape love – a love of action, that responds to a need.

[jlisenbe]

When I say; "God needs me." It is not in the way we think "God needs us, per se." You are not to understand the need God has for "me" in as much as you might want to try and understand the need God has for (in) you?

If you don't understand God has a need for you, there is no way you will understand his need that lives in me.
I need not try to explain any further.

I simply asked for any place in the Bible that supports your belief there. Such scripture evidently does not exist.

When I say; "I am God's love"? I believe that I am to be filled with the life of Christ and express God's love. Christ is God's love - is he not?
We are the Body of Christ??

I certainly agree with that.

Typical response.
Why should you assume that? I guarantee, anybody who says "Jesus is God," will never get a reaction, such as - Are you saying God is not a man?

Believing that Jesus is God and man somewhat alleviates the Man factor. When I say Jesus is 100% man, I'm saying he is just like you and me!
Yes, including the SIn!!! Jesus took on our Sin. The Body was the Body of man the life is the life of God.

It seems you are saying that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. If so, then that's a good reply. As to his humanity, I wouldn't say He is JUST like us. We were born sinners. He was not. He took our sins upon the cross, but He did not commit sin Himself.

[waltero]

I wouldn't say He is JUST like us.

Would you say he might have been just like Adam (the second Adam) before the fall?
He is Humanity. He is Just like us. Not minus the Sin...he became sin, He conquered Sin, so now Sin/Darkness is irrelevant...it lost its power. You and I and all Christians Took on that same Sin.

It is imperative that we understand that God became Man. God is one and the same as you and I. We are to become one with Christ, in Christ just as A Husband and Wife, is one...One body.

If you can understand, there is no you, there is no me, at the end there is only one...only one life and that is Christ Jesus himself...only one.