[jlisenbe]

90-95% effective in reducing symptoms, which they do very well.

Don't think that is true.

“The formula for this calculation is risk of contracting illness among unvaccinated (placebo) group minus the risk among vaccinated group, over the risk among unvaccinated groups,” Jain says.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid...lained-5112463

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/l...-efficacy.html

[Curlyben]

As infectious diseases are not my forte I can only comment on what's reported.
Either way the UK has a high rate of vaccination, 70%+ overall, and, despite increased infection rates, reducing hospitalisation and death rates.

[jlisenbe]

despite increased infection rates, reducing hospitalisation and death rates.

Same thing happening here. Question is why. Hard to say, but it does seem to be good news.

[paraclete]

Perhaps covid 19 will ultimately become as benign as the common cold

[Athos]

As infectious diseases are not my forte I can only comment on what's reported.
Either way the UK has a high rate of vaccination, 70%+ overall, and, despite increased infection rates, reducing hospitalisation and death rates.

Here, (US), the infections are increasing (64%), the hospitalizations are increasing (46%), and the deaths are increasing (33%).

The figures are as of July 30,2021 and are the percentage average increase over 7 days from the previous 7 days. 4 variants have now been found in Florida. Delta has an enormously greater transmissable factor than the previous.

More than ever, the proper action to defeat the virus is to get vaccinated. Those who worry about their "liberty" and their "rights" are leading their followers to sickness and death.

Their real concern is money and being elected to public office.

[tomder55]

Quid calls it the pandemic of the unvaccinated . The CDC scientists sings a different tune identifying 35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK ! https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...4-b148d8f75165 Insults, coercion, and contradictory messages are not good persuasive techniques .

[jlisenbe]

Here, (US), the infections are increasing (64%), the hospitalizations are increasing (46%), and the deaths are increasing (33%).

For which Biden is clearly to blame??

[Athos]

Quid calls it the pandemic of the unvaccinated .

That's exactly what it is.

The CDC scientists sings a different tune identifying 35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK !

You fail to note that the 35,000 is out of 165 MILLION vaccinated - a tiny percentage (.0002) - and that includes comorbidities.

The unvaccinated are 8 times more likely to become infected than the vaccinated. They are 25 times more likely to be hospitalized. And 25 times more likely to die.

The lesson is clear - GET VACCINATED.

Also from your link:

Given higher transmissibility and current vaccine coverage, universal masking is essential to reduce transmission of the Delta variant

[jlisenbe]

You fail to note that the 35,000 is out of 165 MILLION vaccinated - a tiny percentage (.0002)

You failed to note that it is, "35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK." And bear in mind that those are only the symptomatic cases. Asymptomatic cases would likely add several tens of thousands of cases per week. Now you're talking about perhaps three million cases per year.

[paraclete]

panic why don't you

[jlisenbe]

Honesty and clarity are not panic.

[paraclete]

This whole thing has been panic, panic in a population that won't protect itself

[jlisenbe]

Australia won’t protect itself? Maybe you should address that.

[paraclete]

Australia won’t protect itself? Maybe you should address that.

It is being addressed even as we speak, but I speak more generally, for throughout the world this thing has been allowed to spread through foolishness. We protected this nation by protecting our borders even though it took a little while to realise the threat and so the first wave was an inconvenience. The delta variant arrived with returning travellers and we continue to protect ourselves even though infection rates are low by world experience, 300 cases a day and perhaps one death a day.

The lockdowns are an extreme measure but there is a recalcicant element in the community that doesn't respond

[tomder55]

Eradication is and was impossible . In human history only one virus was eradicated through vaccination (small pox);and that was because it did not mutate .It took decades of a global response to eradicate it .

Covid mutates rapidly and is zoonotic .It was derived from bats ;most probably with the assistance of Gain of Function "reserarch" .[FONT=Source Sans Pro, Verdana, sans-serif][COLOR=#444444]New research shows it can also infect animals, and for the first time, variants have been able to infect mice(in laboratories )
. Veterinarians in UK and Texas have discovered the virus in dogs .It has also been discovered in the mink population .[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Athos]

Eradication is and was impossible

Strawman. Nobody but you has even mentioned "eradication". The goal is control so that the population achieves herd immunity. With the Delta variant, that has increased from what it originally was pegged at - all the more reason to get vaccinated.

DeSantis decries the feds for using their power (which they haven't done) while he is threatening to use his governmental power to withdraw funding from any school districts that fail to toe the line that he draws in the sand.

His supporters will completely ignore the contradiction.

[jlisenbe]

DeSantis has legal authority over the schools. The feds do not have legal authority to enforce mask rules or to mandate vaccinations. There is no contradiction.

[tomder55]

What is herd immunity for a disease that rapidly mutates ? How many Greek letters are left ? Conservative estimates are now at 90% to achieve herd immunity . And then what ? The virus has already show it can infect and be transmitted by vaxed and previously infected hosts .So herd immunity is a fictional false promise in this case .

It is especially true if you think being vaxed = sufficent anti-body protection to achieve herd immunity .

Scientists at Rockefeller University put it to the test .

The researchers analyzed patients convalescing from acute SARS-CoV-2 infections and found that they produced B-cell responses for up to a year after infection. During that year, so-called memory cells not only increased in absolute numbers, but also produced broad and potent antibodies that were active in fighting both the original virus and to many of the variants. When convalescing patients then received an mRNA vaccine after initial recovery, they produced even higher levels of plasma neutralizing antibodies. However, in naïve (not previously infected) individuals, the administration of a vaccine followed by a booster also increased the quantity of antibodies, but the antibodies lacked the potency of those produced in previously infected patients who received subsequent mRNA vaccination.
As such, the probability of a vaccine strategy providing “Herd Immunity” has moved from arguable to improbable. Part of the problem is that SARS-CoV-2 is not following the patterns of previous influenza epidemics. It is not a flu that peaks and then disappears within weeks or months. This is an ever shape-shifting virus, finding new ways to outmaneuver our defenses as evidenced by the occurrence of so-called breakthrough infections. Simply being vaccinated does not ensure that one will not become infected, spread the virus, or become ill (albeit with milder symptoms). Recent data from Israel, the UK, and Provincetown, MA, show the limits of vaccine protection. We must realize that Covid-19 vaccines are now prophylactic therapeutics that mitigate, and sometimes prevent the most serious consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Novavax’s Manufacturing Issues Are Solvable, But Covid-19 Vaccine Herd Immunity May Not Be (forbes.com)

[jlisenbe]

People love to toss around the term "herd immunity" without having any clear idea of what it means. That might be because, in all likelihood, there is no real definition available, or at least nothing with any real specifics.

[Athos]

What is herd immunity for a disease that rapidly mutates ?........ .So herd immunity is a fictional false promise in this case

The science is clear and action reflects current knowledge. No one knows what the future holds, and that is no reason for doing nothing. Your constant critique of what is happening is hard to understand. Like so many on the far-right, you appear to actually want the disease to infect as many as possible. I hope I'm wrong.