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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #241

    Jul 18, 2021, 04:07 PM
    My definition is the accepted definition. That is easily verified by checking any dictionary or any Bible site.
    Laughable. If that was true you would have posted them. This is what is found on Wikipedia. Note that you left out quite a few details and mangled the part about how Evangelicals view the Bible. "Evangelicalism, evangelical Christianity, or evangelical Protestantism, is a worldwide trans-denominational movement within Protestant Christianity that maintains the belief that the essence of the Gospel consists of the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, solely through faith in Jesus's atonement. Evangelicals believe in the centrality of the conversion or "born again" experience in receiving salvation, in the authority of the Bible as God's revelation to humanity, and in spreading the Christian message. The movement has long had a presence in the Anglosphere before spreading further afield in the 19th, 20th and early 21st centuries." I might add that, rather amazingly, they found no need to mention, as you usually do, "white evangelicals". Wonder why?

    The question of the resurrection is really the only important question to be asked or answered that I know of. If you answer "yes", then many other important questions arise, but if you answer "no", then important questions cease.

    You are, as is frequently the case, afraid to answer.

    I have no desire to tarnish his reputation by him with you.
    I fully understand. You said plenty to tarnish his reputation just speaking to him. I'm sure you feel his withdrawal from this board has accomplished your purpose.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #242

    Jul 18, 2021, 04:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You said, and I quote, "God’s expression of His unconditional love is found throughout the Bible." Now you say it's not? Are you confused?
    No, I did not say it's not. God's unconditional love. Is. Found. Throughout. The. Bible.

    Yes, Athos is correct. You do have a reading comprehension problem.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #243

    Jul 18, 2021, 04:15 PM
    Except..you..cannot..find..it..anwhere. Can...you...read..and...comprehend...that??? Enough of your blah blah. Put it on the site if you have it. If you don't, and you clearly don't, then move on and stop with the utterly foolish "reading comprehension" comments. The problem lies only with you.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #244

    Jul 18, 2021, 04:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Except..you..cannot..find..it..anwhere.
    Can't find what? God's unconditional love? It begins in Genesis and goes throughout the Bible and ends in Jude.

    And God loves me unconditionally every second of every day.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #245

    Jul 18, 2021, 04:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Laughable.
    Laughable?

    WIKIPEDIA

    In religion – that is characterized by a markedly strict Literalism as it is applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions.

    Britannica

    Fundamentalism - type of religious movement characterized by the advocacy of strict conformity to sacred texts. -


    Merriam-Webster

    Definition of fundamentalism

    A movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching.

    Other Religions

    There is an inerrant holy book, to which literal obedience is mandatory.

    The Indian holy books, the Vedas, are said to contain even scientific as well as spiritual truths; many Christian fundamentalists believe the same of the Bible.

    Literal interpretations and obedience leave no room for uncertainty, no matter how uncertain the real world.


    Still laughing?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #246

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:09 PM
    No. You have provided definitions for fundamentalism. I gave you a definition for evangelicalism which is decidedly a different matter. Even worse, I have told you on multiple occasions that I am not a fundamentalist. So that's two strikes against you now. Watch the next pitch carefully.

    To make matters worse, you have oversimplified your response. There is a good deal more to fundamentalism than what you have described. From Wikipedia. "Christian fundamentalism, also known as fundamental Christianity or fundamentalist Christianity, in its modern form, began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among British and American Protestants[1][2] as a reaction to theological liberalism and cultural modernism. Fundamentalists argued that 19th-century modernist theologians had misinterpreted or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, which they considered the fundamentals of the Christian faith.[3]Fundamentalists are almost always described as holding to the beliefs in Biblical infallibility and Biblical inerrancy.[4] In keeping with traditional Christian doctrines concerning biblical interpretation, the role of Jesus in the Bible, and the role of the church in society, fundamentalists usually believe in a core of Christian beliefs which include the historical accuracy of the Bible and all of the events which are recorded in it as well as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[5]"

    And you are still afraid to answer the question about the resurrection. Shame. Mr. Evasion again?

    WG.
    Can't find what? God's unconditional love?
    Exactly. You can find no place in the Bible where it says God's love is unconditional. You're toast. I just told someone on the phone about you using a text that didn't have the word "love" in it and did not speak at all of love. It's just silliness. If you can find something, then get back with me.

    Question which I'm sure will remain unanswered. Did Jesus show "unconditional love" to the rich young ruler when He told him to sell all that he had and follow Christ? Did He show "unconditional love" to the sellers in the Temple? Did He show unconditional love to Peter when He said, "Get behind me Satan?" Does He show unconditional love in the very plain and clear text in Matthew 25 when He condemns people to Hell? Does He show unconditional love when He pronounces judgment upon Jerusalem in Matthew 23 when He said, "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #247

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    WG. Exactly. You can find no place in the Bible where it says God's love is unconditional.
    Read your Bible. Start with John 3:16.
    You're toast.
    Thanks! You know that means Truly Organized And Sagacious Trinitarian.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #248

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:21 PM
    John 3:16 does not speak of unconditional love. It speaks of belief in Christ as the means of escaping perishing.

    Reposted: Exactly. You can find no place in the Bible where it says God's love is unconditional. You're toast. I just told someone on the phone about you using a text that didn't have the word "love" in it and did not speak at all of love. It's just silliness. If you can find something, then get back with me.

    Questions which I'm sure will remain unanswered. Did Jesus show "unconditional love" to the rich young ruler when He told him to sell all that he had and follow Christ? Did He show "unconditional love" to the sellers in the Temple? Did He show unconditional love to Peter when He said, "Get behind me Satan?" Does He show unconditional love in the very plain and clear text in Matthew 25 when He condemns people to Hell? Does He show unconditional love when He pronounces judgment upon Jerusalem in Matthew 23 when He said, "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

    You and I both know you will not answer those questions. You never do. Now I actually do believe that God's love is unconditional, but His acceptance is not, and that is where you are obstinately confused. Unlike you, I can demonstrate it in the Bible. In fact, your own John 3:16 example shows it clearly. That passage is the meeting point of God's love and mercy, but also judgment.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #249

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    John 3:16 does not speak of unconditional love. It speaks of belief in Christ as the means of escaping perishing.

    Reposted: Exactly. You can find no place in the Bible where it says God's love is unconditional. You're toast. I just told someone on the phone about you using a text that didn't have the word "love" in it and did not speak at all of love. It's just silliness. If you can find something, then get back with me.

    Questions which I'm sure will remain unanswered. Did Jesus show "unconditional love" to the rich young ruler when He told him to sell all that he had and follow Christ? Did He show "unconditional love" to the sellers in the Temple? Did He show unconditional love to Peter when He said, "Get behind me Satan?" Does He show unconditional love in the very plain and clear text in Matthew 25 when He condemns people to Hell? Does He show unconditional love when He pronounces judgment upon Jerusalem in Matthew 23 when He said, "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

    You and I both know you will not answer those questions. You never do. Now I actually do believe that God's love is unconditional, but His acceptance is not, and that is where you are obstinately confused. Unlike you, I can demonstrate it in the Bible. In fact, your own John 3:16 example shows it clearly. That passage is the meeting point of God's love and mercy, but also judgment.
    A deluge of verbiage.

    I'm toast = a Truly Organized And Sagacious Trinitarian.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #250

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:31 PM
    No answers as usual. It's because you don't really want to face the truth.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #251

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No answers as usual. It's because you don't really want to face the truth.
    The truth of what?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #252

    Jul 18, 2021, 05:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No. You have provided definitions for fundamentalism. I gave you a definition for evangelicalism which is decidedly a different matter.
    No, you said you were not an evangelical. Anyone who believes in talking reptiles is a fundamentalist. Evangelical, fundy, born again - all the same.

    Even worse, I have told you on multiple occasions that I am not a fundamentalist.
    Your words are so riddled with changing horses in mid-stream, adding and deleting words and phrases to suit your opinion, insults and nastiness, misquoting others, and a striking weakness in understanding what is written, that a barrel of salt must be taken with whatever you are saying.

    For the record, a reptile-speaking believer is a fundy. No way of getting around it.

    To make matters worse, you have oversimplified your response.
    That sounds like you're agreeing with my definition, oversimplified as you think it is. In any case, my definition is the prime definition that sets you apart from non-fundys. You can add all you want to it, but it doesn't change the basic fact.

    And you are still afraid to answer the question about the resurrection.
    Why is everyone who thinks differently than you think, said to be afraid? There's something Freudian about that.

    Shame. Mr. Evasion again?
    Please tell as again how you hate insults and want this board to be civil and polite.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #253

    Jul 18, 2021, 06:41 PM
    No, you said you were not an evangelical. Anyone who believes in talking reptiles is a fundamentalist. Evangelical, fundy, born again - all the same.
    I said I was not both, and I certainly am not bound by your ridiculous definitions held by no one but you, and especially when you frequently insist on attaching racial descriptions to it, a habit you have also been too hesitant to explain.

    Why is everyone who thinks differently than you think, said to be afraid? There's something Freudian about that.
    I have no idea what you think of the resurrection since you are apparently too fearful to express your opinion. You have a point, I think, about my use of "Mr. Evasion". Perhaps in the future I shall simply say that your refusal to express your view seems to me to be evasive. That would seem civil enough.

    WG
    The truth of what?
    The truth of our topic of discussion. But you can have another shot at it. This is what you replied to with the thoughtful comment of, "A deluge of verbiage." Your refusal to express your view seems to me to be evasive.

    "Questions which I'm sure will remain unanswered. Did Jesus show "unconditional love" to the rich young ruler when He told him to sell all that he had and follow Christ? Did He show "unconditional love" to the sellers in the Temple? Did He show unconditional love to Peter when He said, "Get behind me Satan?" Does He show unconditional love in the very plain and clear text in Matthew 25 when He condemns people to Hell? Does He show unconditional love when He pronounces judgment upon Jerusalem in Matthew 23 when He said, "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

    You and I both know you will not answer those questions. You never do. Now I actually do believe that God's love is unconditional, but His acceptance is not, and that is where you are obstinately confused. Unlike you, I can demonstrate it in the Bible. In fact, your own John 3:16 example shows it clearly. That passage is the meeting point of God's love and mercy, but also judgment.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #254

    Jul 18, 2021, 06:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Your refusal to express your view seems to me to be evasive.
    When I've expressed my view (oooooo, I'm evasive like Athos is???), you've told me I'm wrong and/or shot down with insults and nastiness.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #255

    Jul 18, 2021, 06:55 PM
    You've answered no questions at all. Honest is not the same as insulting and nasty. You are both simply the most difficult people to discuss anything with I've seen in a long time because you will not answer simply questions, and then you want to blame your reluctance on someone else instead of being honest and taking some responsibility.

    Good night guys. Wifey is flying in tonight so I'm going to pick her up. It's been a long five days. She's been visiting the grandbaby. Glad to have her back home.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #256

    Jul 18, 2021, 07:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I said I was not both, and I certainly am not bound by your ridiculous definitions held by no one but you
    Held by me and Encyclopedia Britannica, and Merriam-Webster dictionary, and Wikipedia and dozens of others.

    and especially when you frequently insist on attaching racial descriptions to it
    No idea what you mean.................

    I have no idea what you think of the resurrection since you are apparently too fearful to express your opinion.
    Here's the "fearful" business again. Is that the only insult you carry in your purse? I notice you employ it against others, too.

    your refusal to express your view seems to me to be evasive.
    I have expressed my views here as much as anyone has and more than most.


    (The following comment is addressed to WG)

    Your refusal to express your view seems to me to be evasive.
    I had to laugh at this comment. It's addressed to WG but is the same comment addressed to me. I guess the purse is full.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #257

    Jul 18, 2021, 08:22 PM
    Held by me and Encyclopedia Britannica, and Merriam-Webster dictionary, and Wikipedia and dozens of others.
    Ridiculously untrue. This lunacy is found in none of those. "Anyone who believes in talking reptiles is a fundamentalist. Evangelical, fundy, born again - all the same." That only comes from you. No reputable person would dare put such silliness out for public consumption.


    and especially when you frequently insist on attaching racial descriptions to it

    No idea what you mean.................
    You know exactly what I mean. "White evangelicals"

    Here's the "fearful" business again. Is that the only insult you carry in your purse? I notice you employ it against others, too.
    Prove me wrong. Summon up your courage and answer. Do you believe in the resurrection? You really humor me with your responses. "Oh, he's trying to trick me! I wonder about his motives in asking such a question! Where is he going with that?" (Note to non-thinkers. The quotation marks are meant to be humorous.) You'd think you are a member of the CIA being interrogated by a Russian operative and you have to think it all through at great length. It's just a question!

    I had to laugh at this comment. It's addressed to WG but is the same comment addressed to me. I guess the purse is full.
    You two are the Cheech and Chong of this board. Anytime I can get either one of you to answer a question, I feel it's been a VERY good day. Sadly, they are few and far between.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #258

    Jul 18, 2021, 08:36 PM
    Any of you guys hearing anything out of Tal? Haven't seen a post from him lately. I don't read his posts, but I do notice them. Assume he is OK?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #259

    Jul 18, 2021, 08:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You two are the Cheech and Chong of this board. Anytime I can get either one of you to answer a question, I feel it's been a VERY good day. Sadly, they are few and far between.
    Ask me a question.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #260

    Jul 19, 2021, 04:32 AM
    "Questions which I'm sure will remain unanswered. Did Jesus show "unconditional love" to the rich young ruler when He told him to sell all that he had and follow Christ? Did He show "unconditional love" to the sellers in the Temple? Did He show unconditional love to Peter when He said, "Get behind me Satan?" Does He show unconditional love in the very plain and clear text in Matthew 25 when He condemns people to Hell? Does He show unconditional love when He pronounces judgment upon Jerusalem in Matthew 23 when He said, "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

    You and I both know you will not answer those questions. You never do. Now I actually do believe that God's love is unconditional, but His acceptance is not, and that is where you are obstinately confused. Unlike you, I can demonstrate it in the Bible. In fact, your own John 3:16 example shows it clearly. That passage is the meeting point of God's love and mercy, but also judgment.

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