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paraclete · Jun 23, 2021, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

We generally don't put people in prison for minor offences. Drug possession, for instance, rarely results in a prison sentence. It would generally take several such offenses for the person to end up in prison.

Doesn't explain why you have the largest prison population in the world outside of the reeducation camps of China

But Quid and Psaki will not identify mental health as an issue either

it is obviously an issue

jlisenbe · Jun 23, 2021, 08:03 AM

Doesn't explain why you have the largest prison population in the world outside of the reeducation camps of China.

Incarceration for minor offenses does not explain it either. It is largely due to two reasons. Number one by far is the so called "War on Drugs". Our prison pop rate has gone from about 150 per hundred K in 1980 to the current 700 or so. It's been a disaster on many levels. Number two is the three strikes laws which mandate long sentences for repeat felony offenders.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

talaniman · Jun 23, 2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Incarceration for minor offenses does not explain it either. It is largely due to two reasons. Number one by far is the so called "War on Drugs". Our prison pop rate has gone from about 150 per hundred K in 1980 to the current 700 or so. It's been a disaster on many levels. Number two is the three strikes laws which mandate long sentences for repeat felony offenders.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

Who wants to solve it since prisons generate billions in profits.

Punishment for profit: The economics of mass incarceration – Workers World

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 05:41 AM

Well, it's finally happening. After 100 or so days, KH is finally going to actually go to the southern border to get a first hand look at at least a very small portion of it. Now the portion she is going to see is not the problem area, so she will accomplish very, very little. I imagine this is being done so she can say, "Hey! I went to the blasted border. Now leave me alone." Wouldn't it be nice to have a real VP who would be going today for the fifth time rather than the first time and who would be able to say that she has talked with store owners, ranchers, border cops, and even the immigrants themselves. Oh well.

paraclete · Jun 25, 2021, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

Only if you don't want to solve it. Take the three strikes law, it is unjust, a law which imposes longer sentences for repeat offenders would serve the same purpose and reduce the prison population. The war on drugs has meant you are locking up more and more of your black population, this policy hasn't achieved the desired result, just put more individuals in a place of despair

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 06:30 AM

So we should allow the drug dealers to stand on the street corners and peddle their poison? As to the 3 strikes laws, I have some sympathy for that, but I'd also suggest to those with two strikes to be sure not to get the third one. That is done by doing what the great majority of people do which is to obey the law.

The problem is much deeper than all of that. Fatherless families and out of wedlock births are both contributors.

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well, it's finally happening. After 100 or so days, KH is finally going to actually go to the southern border to get a first hand look at at least a very small portion of it.

I've never ever been to the border but have seen countless photos and videos, have read many news articles and have seen developments on news and talk shows. I could dive right in with changes and improvements.

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 09:09 AM

You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene. It would be tantamount to being the mayor of Chicago but living in Los Angeles and never even going to Chicago. "Oh, I've seen photos and videos of Chicago and I watch CNN everyday. I've got this under control."

I can only imagine how you'd react if this was Pence instead of KH.

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene. It would be tantamount to being the mayor of Chicago but living in Los Angeles and never even going to Chicago. "Oh, I've seen photos and videos of Chicago and I watch CNN everyday. I've got this under control."

I can only imagine how you'd react if this was Pence instead of KH.

Oh, I'd get to the border eventually, but there are several very important -- very vital! -- changes I would make from afar. And I would be in regular contact with those (yes, even the refugees etc.) who are there.

Pence is becoming a really nice guy.

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 09:22 AM

Oh, I'd get to the border eventually.

How nice of you. "I'll get to Chicago sooner or later. I'm just too busy looking at photos and videos and watching CNN. Don't rush me!"

Pence was always a nice guy.

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

How nice of you. "I'll get to Chicago sooner or later. I'm just too busy looking at photos and videos and watching CNN. Don't rush me!"

Pence was always a nice guy.

And what would a trip to the border tell you that you couldn't find out otherwise?

Oh, you apparently haven't heard the latest....

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 10:02 AM

As said earlier. "You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene."

What would a trip to Chicago tell the mayor that he/she couldn't find out otherwise?

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

As said earlier. "You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene."

Oh, I would go there and would definitely talk with the refugees and immigrants of all ages. But first I would need to understand the entire situation and what reinforcements and funds and volunteers are needed before I hit the highway.

Why Chicago? I don't live there nor do I have anything to do with it.

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 12:31 PM

Why Chicago? I don't live there nor do I have anything to do with it.

It's an analogy. No one with any sense would be content with a mayor who never even bothered to visit the town. It would be absurd, as is this situation with KH.

Oh, I would go there and would definitely talk with the refugees and immigrants of all ages.

But not the citizens of the United States such as the ranchers, small-town mayors, border agents, or police and sheriff forces? How sad.

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's an analogy. No one with any sense would be content with a mayor who never even bothered to visit the town. It would be absurd, as is this situation with KH.

Chicago's mayor always LIVES IN Chicago. Lori has lived in the Logan Square neighborhood since 2004.

But not the citizens of the United States such as the ranchers, small-town mayors, border agents, or police and sheriff forces? How sad.

Of course, that's a given. I didn't think I had to mention such obvious contacts to someone as sharp as you.

jlisenbe · Jun 25, 2021, 01:36 PM

Chicago's mayor always LIVES IN Chicago. Lori has lived in the Logan Square neighborhood since 2004.

What part of the word "allegory" do you not understand???

It's a given? Sure it is. So much so that you didn't even bother to mention it.

Wondergirl · Jun 25, 2021, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What part of the word "allegory" do you not understand???

Um, no.

It's a given? Sure it is. So much so that you didn't even bother to mention it.

Because it's a given. I said earlier in this thread "But first I would need to understand the entire situation and what reinforcements and funds and volunteers are needed before I hit the highway". In order to understand, I would have to talk with those people (among others) you mentioned.

tomder55 · Jun 25, 2021, 02:16 PM

I know why Kam the sham was reluctant to visit . She botched her visit to the triangle nations and does not want a repeat performance . Maybe I'm missing something . Isn't El Paso one of the areas where the border wall was mostly completed ? 2019 El Paso was an epicenter of illegal crossings .Now not so much . She should travel a few hundred miles down the Rio Grande Valley ;especially the areas where construction was stopped .

talaniman · Jun 25, 2021, 02:23 PM

Maybe would should have had immigration reform a few decades ago.

paraclete · Jun 25, 2021, 02:25 PM

well not to worry, Texas has taken up the cudgel of building the wall so KH doesn't have to visit to see the progress