[paraclete]

That's not the same, or even close to being the same, as you doing your own investigation. That's the WHO doing an investigation that found, unsurprisingly, inconclusive evidence.

We are no more successful in penetrating the bamboo curtain than you are, you don't just rock up to the borders of a nation who is not speaking to you and do an investigation

[tomder55]

Originally Posted by tomder55
my team ? I have been registered without party affiliation my whole adult life and even if I were I walk in lock step with no one .



That's it? That's your entire response to my post?

yeah that's about it . I do not speak for what the Republicans do . They pretty much expelled the fiscal conservative tea partiers and that was the closest I ever came to being a "Republican" . As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot. Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection .

Dan Henniger in WSJ points to the lack of trust in the swamp's and the compliant press' ability to be unbiased investigators of the truth .

The Pelosi January 6 Commission Fiasco - WSJ

So no matter what ANY investigation reveals ,already half the country will think the investigation rigged . Such is the lack of integrity of the government and the 5th column ......oops 4th estate

[jlisenbe]

As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot. Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection .

That is true. The Antifa crowd will occupy entire city blocks and block access by the police. They will do it for months at a time. The 1/6 event had no intent of taking over the Capitol Building and occupying it. It was more of a spontaneous, very dumb idea.

It seems to be the core of our country now. Get all excited about a flash in the pan event like 1/6, and pay no attention at all to an ever ballooning federal debt and the reckless inflation of the money supply.

[Athos]

As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot

The Jan6 event was as clear an insurrection as anything that has ever occurred in this country since the Civil War. Simply denying it like the Republicans are doing does not make it less of an insurrection. It is the classic definition of an insurrection.

Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection

This would be laughable if the situation were not so serious. Antifa is a loosely organized group which is against the groups who espouse racism, anti-semitism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazi philosophy - in other words, the ones that stormed the Capitol in the Jan 6 insurrection. Any violence has been denounced by Pelosi and other Dem members and center-leaning figures. Comparing antifa with Jan 6 is a desperate move by you and the far-right wackos.

The Pelosi January 6 Commission Fiasco - WSJ

Your so-called fiasco was originally exactly what the Republicans wanted. When the Dems agreed to what they wanted, they bailed out like the cowards they are.

So no matter what ANY investigation reveals ,already half the country will think the investigation rigged

You have no idea what "half the country" will do after the facts are presented to them. In fact, most Americans want the investigation to be done. That number will increase as the facts are presented.

Such is the lack of integrity of the government

The government you are referring to has been voted out of office. Its leader is wondering where he will next live since nobody seems to want him around.

[tomder55]

Actually the government you refer to was advancing the lab leak theory for months. The government you defend aka swamp critters was carrying water for the Chinese .

[Athos]

Actually the government you refer to was advancing the lab leak theory for months. The government you defend aka swamp critters was carrying water for the Chinese .

The lab leak theory was around in January 2020 - long before Trump seized on it as a talking point against China. I hope you're not suggesting Trump gets some sort of credit if the theory turns out to be true.

Far more serious was Trump's lack of action in dealing with the actual virus leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

[tomder55]

Far more serious was Trump's lack of action in dealing with the actual virus leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

and again proving Henniger's point .

[paraclete]

The lab leak theory was around in January 2020 - long before Trump seized on it as a talking point against China. .

You sometimes give your Presidents too much credit for what they are able to accomplish particularly when they have a House bent on impeaching them. If you cannot pass legislation in a hostile environment you are dead in the water, so the real blame for inaction lies with fancy Nancy and the demonrats who are now able to use the situation to their advantage

[tomder55]

Fauci and company was denying that it was a pandemic and a major problem 9 days before Trump put the travel ban on China.

[Athos]

You sometimes give your Presidents too much credit for what they are able to accomplish particularly when they have a House bent on impeaching them. If you cannot pass legislation in a hostile environment you are dead in the water, so the real blame for inaction lies with fancy Nancy and the demonrats who are now able to use the situation to their advantage

The House had nothing to do with the inaction. You don't understand how things work.

Trump had the bully pulpit - the attention of millions of his followers. He neglected to emphasize the seriousness of the pandemic by dissing mask wearing and promoting ridiculous "cures" which killed at least one older couple when they drank the "bleach" cure Trump touted. At every rally he made fun of the "false" virus, until he finally got wise as the death toll mounted. 80% of the death toll is indirectly attributed to Trump's failure to act.

Fighting the virus was the job of science, not legislation.

Fauci and company was denying that it was a pandemic and a major problem 9 days before Trump put the travel ban on China.

Faucci and company followed the science and quickly adjusted their stance whenever it was demanded by the new information coming in on a daily basis. Trump didn't change his tune until it was far too late. He even continued to diss the problem even after he caught the virus himself and rode around in the car jeopardizing everyone near him. The jerk was and is a complete total amoral moron!

[jlisenbe]

dissing mask wearing and promoting ridiculous "cures" which killed at least one older couple when they drank the "bleach" cure Trump touted.

A completely false story. It was not bleach but fish tank cleaner which Trump never suggested anyone use. The man and his wife both ingested chloroquine phosphate, reportedly believing it to be a miracle cure for coronavirus. Trump had suggested, accurately as it turned out, that hydroxychloroquine showed promise as a treatment for CV. The older couple confused one for the other.

80% of the death toll is indirectly attributed to Trump's failure to act.

Nothing more than a "swag" which is wildly inaccurate.

[Athos]

A completely false story. It was not bleach but fish tank cleaner

Same result. Bleach/chloroquine - they trusted Trump who totally screwed up his presidential responsibility on the issue leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

[jlisenbe]

That is simply not true. The older couple made a mistake for which Trump had no involvement. He never told anyone to take fish tank cleaner. For that matter, he never suggested anyone take HC. He did cite research showing hydroxychloroquine having potential as a treatment. The older couple did not take HC. "As Reason's Elizabeth Nolan Brown wrote this morning, 'It hardly seems Trump's fault that this couple took his statements to mean that drinking any old thing with chloroquine in it could help them.' "

[tomder55]

except Trump never said 'bleach' or suggested using it .]He was asking officials on the White House coronavirus task force whether disinfectants could be used in potential cures. As an example ; The science tells me that thimerosal is a disinfectant commonly used in vaccines. Food grade hydrogen peroxide is another . Silver has been used and an antimicrobial ingestible disinfectant for hundreds of years .So has iodine .

[Athos]

except Trump never said 'bleach' or suggested using it .]He was asking officials on the White House coronavirus task force whether disinfectants could be used in potential cures. As an example ; The science tells me that thimerosal is a disinfectant commonly used in vaccines. Food grade hydrogen peroxide is another . Silver has been used and an antimicrobial ingestible disinfectant for hundreds of years .So has iodine .

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. The whole world knows what Trump did or did not do re Covid. Yeah, it wasn't specifically bleach, but Trump touted injecting "disinfectant" into the body. Bleach is a powerful disinfectant that would kill anyone who injected it. Bit of a nitpick, isn't that?

The hydroxychoroquinine was another piece of idiocy from Trump. Without any medical evidence that it was a valid treatment for Covid, Trunp promoted it leading to the death of an elderly couple who saw it on a label for a fish tank cleaner and thought it would be a good treatment BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID.

Why do I have to spend time on this crap when the both of you know exactly what happened? Do you love Trump that much to defend the indefensible?

[jlisenbe]

an elderly couple who saw it on a label for a fish tank cleaner

First you said bleach, but now it's HC. Either way, they did not see HC on a label. They saw simply chloroquine phosphate. If they had taken what Trump referred to, they would have had no problems. It was not, "BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID," no matter how many times you say it.

Without any medical evidence that it was a valid treatment for Covid,

Also not true. Trump was referring to preliminary results from research on HC as a treatment for CV. The med evidence was not conclusive by any means, but there was med evidence there.

[tomder55]

In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality.
Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 - International Journal of Infectious Diseases (ijidonline.com)

[Athos]

First you said bleach, but now it's HC.

Why do you insist on picking nits? HQ or bleach - big deal!

Either way, they did not see HC on a label. They saw simply chloroquine phosphate. If they had taken what Trump referred to, they would have had no problems.

For Christ sake, they were not chemists!

It was not, "BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID," no matter how many times you say it.

Of course it was. Their wrong reading in no way removes Trump from the equation.

Trump was referring to preliminary results from research on HC as a treatment for CV. The med evidence was not conclusive by any means, but there was med evidence there.

That was not Trump's job to be touting medical research. Obviously, some listeners took it the wrong way. Faucci warned against jumping the gun based on limited anecdotal evidence. That didn't stop Trump in his desperation to play down the danger of the virus, which ultimately bit him in the arse (literally).

In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality.
Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 - International Journal of Infectious Diseases (ijidonline.com)

Soon, and after a large trial, the FDA announced the drug had no benefit in the treatment of Covid-19. Trump should have kept his mouth shut.

[jlisenbe]

Their wrong reading in no way removes Trump from the equation.

Actually, it completely does so. Trump says "A" and they read "D". That places the responsibility squarely on the reader.

That was not Trump's job to be touting medical research.

Of course it was. What pres doesn't do that? Even your hero, Obama, did it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-e...-research-ban/

Obviously, some listeners took it the wrong way.

I would agree with that. In fact they rather sadly completely botched it.

[tomder55]

The key Chinese researcher at Wuhan, Shi Zhengli, known as the “Bat Lady,” specialized further, engineering coronaviruses to attack human cells. Her research was funded by the Obama administration’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, a part of the National Institutes of Health. The NIH initially assigned those grants to EcoHealth, who subcontracted the work to Wuhan. The work which likely created COVID-19 was paid for by the United States.

America Might Have Funded the Chinese Coronavirus | The American Conservative