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Athos · May 18, 2021, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

It would not have needed to had it not been for Hitler's final solution and WWII.

The world was rightly sympathetic to the suffering of Jews under Hitler. But did that justify granting them land belonging to others? The land seizure has been justified by it being "sparsely populated and desolate". Ironic that the Nazis also first justified land seizures in Eastern Europe by Germans becoming more efficient agriculturalists.

I'm quite sure that members here who approve the land seizure would fight like hell if someone tried to give their land and property away to others. In the actual event, half the local population fled or were expelled, hundreds of their villages were destroyed, and the inhabitants including women and children were killed or executed.

As Arabs attempted to return to their seized lands, Israel passed laws preventing the displaced Palestinians from doing so, and also passed laws normalizing the Israeli seizures.

(Discussions of the Israel-Palestine issue never fail to bring out the morons who see any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic.)

talaniman · May 18, 2021, 10:07 PM

Given the cruel bloody history of America's growth and development it's not surprising a blind eye can be turned by those emulating our example.

tomder55 · May 19, 2021, 03:21 AM

The Israeli laws apply to all in Jerusalem . Had the squatters paid rent then there would be no issue . They would be protected indefinitely in the justice system if they paid rent ,just like any tenant in this country .

The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism .

As an example ;this letter from 190 so called human rights organizations mention the land owners as Jews 8 times .
It incorrectly calls them settlers 7 times (as previously mentioned ,the property was owned by their families for over a century. ).
Letter: 190 Organizations Urge ICC Prosecutor to Investigate Forced Evictions of Palestinian Families in Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem | Center for Constitutional Rights (ccrjustice.org)

I find it amusing that those who are outraged about the state of Israel always fail to mention that Jews were evicted from any number of Arab nations after 1948 and forced to leave behind $billions in property .
The controversy at Sheikh Jarrah ONLY exists because Jews were evicted from Jerusalem and stripped of property rights by Jordan after 1948 . Israel recaptured Jerusalem and returned the properties to their original owners . To date the Jews from other Arab nations have had no remedy for their losses .

and speaking of WWII ..... how many displaced people lost their right to property they owned ? Jews in Poland ? Their property rights were not restored by the Soviet Union . In some cases Poland's boundaries changed and now their land is in Ukraine .

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it . How often in this country is eminent domain invokes to take someone's property for the "public good " ?

jlisenbe · May 19, 2021, 04:26 AM

Discussions of the Israel-Palestine issue never fail to bring out the morons who see any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic.)

Amazing how overly sensitive anti-Semites can be.

The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism .

Yep. No Arab country is genuinely concerned about Palestinian rights. Their motivation is to eradicate the Jews. Anyone who sides with them is, by default, engaged in the same crusade. Pick your friends wisely.

And right on cue, BLM joins up with the anti-Semites. Should we be surprised? "Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation.'" I'm sure the liberal dems in Congress will be apoplectic about the provocative use of the term "fight". How dare they!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bla...orists-israeli

paraclete · May 19, 2021, 06:34 AM

Does the BLM think the Palestinians black or coloured, they would not join with Kaffirs. The Palestinians would not fight for them only the stupid white men would fight for them a century and a half ago, but not now, for they have seen what they have done with their freedom. Attitudes have changed on the right and the left

Athos · May 19, 2021, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

The Israeli laws apply to all in Jerusalem .

The laws did not apply to Arabs as I stated. The reference is to the late 1940s when Israel became a state. Your reference is to today's issue.

The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism

You have the wrong issue. See above. Anyway, that is NOT anti-semitism.

I find it amusing that those who are outraged about the state of Israel always fail to mention that Jews were evicted from any number of Arab nations after 1948 and forced to leave behind $billions in property

Is your belief that one justifies the other? Nothing amusing about that.

The controversy at Sheikh Jarrah........

That is the wrong controversy being referred to.

and speaking of WWII ....... how many displaced people lost their right property they owned ? Jews in Poland ? Their property rights were not restored by the Soviet Union . In some cases Poland's boundaries changed and now their land is in Ukraine.

Your point seems to be if one group loses property it is offset by another group losing property. That's hardly a blow for international harmony.

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it

Good Lord, what a comment!! So I can take your property if I have more firepower and you can't defend it? Where in the world did you ever get that idea?

How often in this country is eminent domain invokes to take someone's property for the "public good " ?

Eminent domain has absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed. I'm surprised you even bring it up.

Originally Posted by paraclete

Does the BLM think the Palestinians black or coloured, they would not join with Kaffirs.

I will chalk it up to your ignorance not knowing that "kaffir" is a derogatory term. It is equivalent to the "N....." word.

jlisenbe · May 19, 2021, 11:54 AM

Why would Israel not simply have said, "We are reclaiming land that belonged to us 1900 years ago?" The Palestinians were not the original occupiers of the land.

Wondergirl · May 19, 2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why would Israel not simply have said, "We are reclaiming land that belonged to us 1900 years ago?" The Palestinians were not the original occupiers of the land.

And what if descendants of indigenous tribes said to white people in this country, "We, the original occupiers of this land, are reclaiming it because you stole it from our ancestors"?

jlisenbe · May 19, 2021, 01:03 PM

Who did they take it from? And then who took the land before them? Where do you stop?

tomder55 · May 19, 2021, 01:04 PM

Your point seems to be if one group loses property it is offset by another group losing property. That's hardly a blow for international harmony.

The only international outrage is when the Israeli's are the alleged wrong doers .

tomder55 · May 19, 2021, 02:17 PM

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it

Good Lord, what a comment!! So I can take your property if I have more firepower and you can't defend it? Where in the world did you ever get that idea?

That is the bottom line . The laws are there to help you defend your right to property . But often that doesn't work out so well does it ? And as mentioned . The government can determine that you must surrender your property at their whim. see the taking clause of the 5th Amendment who determines "public use" or "just "compensation?....not the individual who actually owns the property

Athos · May 19, 2021, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

The only international outrage is when the Israeli's are the alleged wrong doers .

Got it. It's ok to take the land of others as long as it's Israel doing the taking.

Athos · May 19, 2021, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

That is the bottom line . The laws are there to help you defend your right to property . But often that doesn't work out so well does it ?

No, especially with Native Americans. So that land must be returned to them? Is that your position?

The government can determine that you must surrender your property at their whim

You're still confusing eminent domain with the issue under discussion. In any case, government seizure of land is hardly "at their whim". It requires due process and just compensation.

. see the taking clause of the 5th Amendment who determines "public use" or "just "compensation?....not the individual who actually owns the property

The final arbiter is the court. The principle of eminent domain has been successfully challenged several times.

talaniman · May 19, 2021, 05:44 PM

So it's okay for the Israelis to destroy Palestinians in the ghetto to strike back against their Hamas attackers? Sounds like a cruel excuse to me.

paraclete · May 19, 2021, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

So it's okay for the Israelis to destroy Palestinians in the ghetto to strike back against their Hamas attackers? Sounds like a cruel excuse to me.

The Israeli's don't tolerate terrorism any more than your own country does, no I would say a little less, since it doesn't go thousand of miles to retaliate. It is not a cruel excuse, those people chose to go there, they choose to stay, and they agree with Hamas, so spare me the tears for terrorist sympathisers. What did your country do when it was attacked by terrorists, it replied by bombing the crap out of them and conquering the country they lived in? The Palestinians are engaged in a proxy war on behalf of Iran and war is hell

tomder55 · May 20, 2021, 03:51 AM

The Israeli's don't tolerate terrorism any more than your own country does, no I would say a little less, since it doesn't go thousand of miles to retaliate. It is not a cruel excuse, those people chose to go there, they choose to stay, and they agree with Hamas, so spare me the tears for terrorist sympathisers. What did your country do when it was attacked by terrorists, it replied by bombing the crap out of them and conquering the country they lived in? The Palestinians are engaged in a proxy war on behalf of Iran and war is hell

Well said .. I would add that with Quid in command that we getting a repeat of 2014. The Hamas thugs stockpiled rockets from Iran . They launched them The Israeli's went into Gaza to take out Hamas. The incursion lasted until Hamas was almost defeated .Then international pressure led by the emperor and JFKerry forced Israel to back off .It was then that Iran knew they had a reliable negotiating partner with the emperor for JCPOA . Of note the emperor stopped the delivery of Hellfire missiles to Israel in the middle of the conflict .

This is a wash-rinse -repeat cycle . Iran supplies the missiles .A bogus intifada "spontaneously erupts . Hamas accelerates the firing of missiles into Israel provoking an Israeli incursion into Gaza. The Israeli response is internationally condemned as not being proportional . Human shields get killed because Hamas locates their weapons and HQs in civilian centers . There is external pressure for Israel to accept a temporary cease fire that is concurrent with Hamas running out of weapons . Eventually Israel bows to the pressure. Hamas rearms .
The Quid goal for the ME is the same as the emperor's .He wants Iran to be the dominant regional hegemon . Then the US can leave the region in their safe hands . Ask yourself why Quid ended the terrorist designation for the Iran backed Houthis in Yemen .

paraclete · May 20, 2021, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

. Ask yourself why Quid ended the terrorist designation for the Iran backed Houthis in Yemen .

I don't ask myself such questions it makes my head hurt, what I will ask is why the US is the arms supplier to the world?

tomder55 · May 20, 2021, 06:53 AM

because the US has the best weapons ? (except the F35 which is a dog) If the Aussies had superior weapons to sell ,their arms would be on the market.

jlisenbe · May 20, 2021, 07:16 AM

why the US is the arms supplier to the world?

Who built the aircraft, tanks, small arms, etc. used by the Arab world? Who armed much of the third world? It was largely not the U.S.

tomder55 · May 20, 2021, 04:00 PM

cease fire announced . wash rinse repeat

Israel will stop . Hamas will continue for a few hours after the cease fire goes into effect so Hamas can show the people of Gaza they are still standing . Soon the humanitarian aid checks will be written to support the Palestinians while Israel will lick their wounds and explains that 'giving peace a chance' is what mature, grown-up nations do.