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    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #1

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:38 AM
    Faith is not
    Faith is not
    Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination.

    Real Christianity requires much more than a vague belief in Jesus as personal savior.

    Hebrews 11:1 tells us what faith is according to the Bible: “Now faith is the substantiation of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” ... Faith is also the conviction of things not seen. It convinces us of what we do not see. Hence, it is the evidence, the proof, of things not seen.”
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #2

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:46 AM
    Faith is believing the evidence, yes, "the conviction of things not seen," since there is no proof.
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    #3

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:49 AM
    Let's say you had a dream. One day you were walking down the street and- Deja vu! You remember this same scene, that you are presently standing in, almost as if you had been there before. All of a sudden you remember this dream you had years ago. What would you do? Would you continue on your intended route or would you try to bring the dream into focus?
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    #4

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:50 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    would you try to bring the dream into focus?
    What would that accomplish?
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    #5

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:50 AM
    Where's your faith? Ignoring the dream- you might miss something.
    If you decided to focus in on the dream and continue to play it out?

    I've experienced many such Dreams. I always (well, not always) try to continue. Same as I did in the dream.

    One such Dream: I was in a building doing something, something that I had never done before, I have never seen before...I didn't even know where I was or what I was doing. Some years later I was Working in a Cannery, I myself moving racks of fish- and poof, I was in my dream! I had some doubt, thought it might be a simple Deja vu moment. Then I remembered, the Morning of my dream I had called my Mother. So I called my my Mother up; asked my Mother if she remembered the dream I had a few years back, the dream I had mentioned to her over the phone. The dream where I didn't know where I was at and I was doing something strange (I remember the racks, not the fish). Confirmation! she remembered. After thinking WOW, this is crazy, I told her I remembered (in the dream) that there were two cans of Soda behind a bin of Ice, way back in the corner. SO I went over bent down and reached under the bin...wo and behold I pulled out two can's of Soda!!! Ma and I both marveled at such a thing, then I drank da Soda and went back to sluffing off. I wasn't worried about drinking another man's soda, it was my place, and I figured it had been left by the other guy who just got fired.

    I've had other significant dreams. Later in life. When I found myself in a situation where I didn't really know what to do (on the Job Usually), I would sometimes reach out and see what I did in the Dream...a dream that I didn't even know I had. As you know I'm not the Smartest tool in the shed, and I look like a guy that would screw up a lot. GOD has blessed (faith in my idea of a dream) me with bigger jobs than most. I have much more now (Not working) than I ever had while working...hard to figure that one out. Blessings from GOD I know!
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    #6

    Apr 21, 2021, 11:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Faith is not
    Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination.
    Of course it is. Faith does not require real-world evidence outside of your imagination. That's why it's called Faith - the subject we've been discussing for weeks here. Have you comprehended nothing in all that time?

    Real Christianity requires much more than a vague belief in Jesus as personal savior.
    ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT. However many Christian fundamentalists will disagree with you.

    Faith is also the conviction of things not seen. It convinces us of what we do not see. Hence, it is the evidence, the proof, of things not seen.”
    Being convinced of a thing is proof?? Huh? Not in a million years. Please W - think, think, think before you write.

    Btw, Is English a second language for you? If so, that may explain a lot.
    waltero's Avatar
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    #7

    Apr 21, 2021, 12:35 PM
    Of course it is. Faith does not require real-world evidence outside of your imagination.
    The Bible, why is it here? It’s here for the encouragement of the readers! Their faith is faltering. How does your faith, when it’s faltering, get made strong? By looking in on itself?

    Being convinced of a thing is proof?? Huh? Not in a million years. Please W - think, think, think before you write
    .
    Hebrews 11:1
    Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

    think, think, think before you write
    You're thinking with your eyes.

    Bring the Bible to life...operate in faith.
    Faith is believing the Word.

    Many Examples of faith in the Bible. We can discus them further if you like?
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    #8

    Apr 21, 2021, 02:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    The Bible, why is it here? It’s here for the encouragement of the readers!
    Agreed. Much of the Bible can be very uplifting in difficult times. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion. Don't forget, if you want to change the topic, you can always start a new thread so as not to confuse an existing thread.

    How does your faith, when it’s faltering, get made strong?
    My faith is not the issue here. The issue - which you started (good for you) - is what faith is, not mine but generally.

    By looking in on itself?
    I don't know what you mean. However, it sounds a bit sarcastic. Is it? Sarcastic? If so, why?

    Hebrews 11:1
    Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].
    With your exegesis in parens, you have managed to misconstrue the meaning. More like totally garbled it. It's ok to derive your own meaning from the Bible, but don't expect others to buy into it.

    You're thinking with your eyes.
    No, I think with my brain. What are you trying to say?

    Bring the Bible to life...operate in faith.
    Faith is believing the Word.
    I have no objection to either statement. If it works for you, more power to you.

    Many Examples of faith in the Bible. We can discus them further if you like?
    To what purpose? I'm still waiting for your responses to proving God from the other thread. If you're finished with that one, ok by me.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #9

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:11 PM
    Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination.
    Completely agree.

    Real Christianity requires much more than a vague belief in Jesus as personal savior.
    Not real sure I understand your point here. Perhaps you are saying we must repent and believe, as opposed to believing only? If that is the case, then I think you are entirely correct.

    The Bible, why is it here? It’s here for the encouragement of the readers!
    That's a good point, but it's not the primary purpose of the Bible. I would say the primary of the Bible is to establish the truth of God.
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    #10

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:43 PM
    Agreed. Much of the Bible can be very uplifting in difficult times. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion
    Has to do with Faith. Where Christians derive their faith

    My faith is not the issue here. The issue - which you started - is what faith is.
    Has nothing to do with "my" Faith or "your faith. Has to do with 'God's faith.'

    By looking in on itself?
    There is no "My" faith or "your" faith in real faith.


    It's ok to derive your own meaning from the Bible.
    There is Power in the Word. Everlasting power. there is no power in your or my faith/word.

    No, I think with my brain. What are you trying to say?
    Take your Focus off of this world.

    If it works for you, more power to you.
    It works for everybody. In fact it is the only thing that works.

    To what purpose?
    Understanding God's faith.
     
    I'm still waiting for your responses to proving God
     
    Here it is; GOD said it, I believe it...you're thinking with your eyes again.
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #11

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:49 PM
    Has to do with 'God's faith.'
    God has faith IN His words in that when He says something, He has No Doubt that it will come to pass – there is no “incomplete knowledge,” there at all. When we have faith IN God, we are to have faith IN our words; therefore, we have “The God Kind OF Faith…

    If you don't understand the Bible being the living Word. You are totally blind to what I speak.
    Yah, I know, if it works for me. That is your response to everything. It works far all

    Faith comes from GOD. Faith belongs to GOD. End of Story.
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    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #12

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Has to do with Faith. Where Christians derive their faith


    Has nothing to do with "my" Faith or "your faith. Has to do with 'God's faith.'


    There is no "My" faith or "your" faith in real faith.



    There is Power in the Word. Everlasting power. there is no power in your or my faith/word.


    Take your Focus off of this world.


    It works for everybody. In fact it is the only thing that works.


    Understanding God's faith.


    Here it is; GOD said it, I believe it...you're thinking with your eyes again.

    I'm sorry Waldo, but you have shown yourself completely unable to conduct an adult conversation. I know you're young, but your responses are ridiculous and are chasing people away from God or the god you believe in. I've given you every chance to engage, but you refuse. Providing this page with garbled gibberish isn't working for you.
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    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #13

    Apr 21, 2021, 04:24 PM
    The Bible, why is it here? It’s here for the encouragement of the readers!
    That's a good point, but it's not the primary purpose of the Bible. I would say the primary of the Bible is to establish the truth of God.
    Talking about faith.
    Many examples of faith are in the Bible. Real people, we can gain a better understanding of faith by their example.
    Abraham’s Faithful Obedience, Isaac and His Sons, Jacob and His Grandsons, Joseph and His Bones, Moses in the Basket, Moses Chooses the Invisible over the Visible ect.

    Real Christianity requires much more than a vague belief in Jesus as personal savior.
    Not real sure I understand your point here
    Has to do with Belief vs faith thing. Not sure what my point might have been either, tired.

    Faith is also the conviction of things not seen. It convinces us of what we do not see. Hence, it is the evidence, the proof, of things not seen.”
    Being convinced of a thing is proof?? Huh? Not in a million years.
    That's my point. You can not see. You will not see. If you are able to open the Bible and read it with a clear mind you might Be surprised by what you see.

    I'm still waiting for your responses to proving God
    What do you want? Should I adopt Athos Faith?
    You have it in your mind that the proof doesn't exist...no matter who provides it. Even if it were Jesus come in the Flesh, you still would not believe...FACT!


    Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination.
    Of course it is.
    How does a person's imaginary faith, when it’s faltering, get made strong? By looking in on itself?

    I've given you every chance to engage, but you refuse
    . This is not an engagement (can you separate faith and logic... Huh? Not in a million years), simply for the fact that I know where your coming from. Your stuck in your own mind, your own world. Always the same response- Huh? Not in a million years, that's crazy talk, your crazy - You have no idea where I'm coming from. As long as your focus is on this world you will remain blind to the Word of GOD.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #14

    Apr 21, 2021, 06:20 PM
    Talking about faith.
    Many examples of faith are in the Bible. Real people, we can gain a better understanding of faith by their example. Abraham’s Faithful Obedience, Isaac and His Sons, Jacob and His Grandsons, Joseph and His Bones, Moses in the Basket, Moses Chooses the Invisible over the Visible ect.
    Fair enough.

    Has to do with Belief vs faith thing. Not sure what my point might have been either, tired.
    I've been there.

    How does a person's imaginary faith, when it’s faltering, get made strong? By looking in on itself?
    It's an imaginary faith in a god of his own making. It has very little to do with the Bible.

    What do you want? Should I adopt Athos Faith?
    That one was amusing!
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    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #15

    Apr 21, 2021, 07:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Many examples of faith are in the Bible. Real people, we can gain a better understanding of faith by their example. Abraham’s Faithful Obedience, Isaac and His Sons, Jacob and His Grandsons, Joseph and His Bones, Moses in the Basket, Moses Chooses the Invisible over the Visible ect.
    Another example of you missing the point. You post whatever pops into your head.

    Not sure what my point might have been
    That's the truest thing you've ever said here. Congratulations!

    You can not see. You will not see.
    Want to provide some proof for that? No, I didn't think so.

    What do you want?
    An intelligent conversation from you. I'm slowly realizing that's an impossibility.

    Should I adopt Athos Faith?
    Only if you know what it is. But you don't know.

    You have it in your mind that the proof doesn't exist...no matter who provides it.
    If you provide proof, I'll be the first to admit it.

    Even if it were Jesus come in the Flesh, you still would not believe...FACT!
    No, not FACT! Just another touch of hysteria from your fevered mind.

    How does a person's imaginary faith, when it’s faltering, get made strong? By looking in on itself?
    If an imaginary faith is faltering, let it falter.

    can you separate faith and logic... Huh?
    Sure. Faith is based on belief. Logic is based on reason. Faith is subjective. Logic is objective.

    simply for the fact that I know where your coming from. Your stuck in your own mind, your own world. Always the same response- Huh? Not in a million years, that's crazy talk, your crazy - You have no idea where I'm coming from. As long as your focus is on this world you will remain blind to the Word of GOD.
    Another run-on sentence that has little meaning. Really, Walter, how old are you?
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    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #16

    Apr 21, 2021, 10:48 PM
    Many examples of faith are in the Bible. Real people, we can gain a better understanding of faith by their example. Abraham’s Faithful Obedience, Isaac and His Sons, Jacob and His Grandsons, Joseph and His Bones, Moses in the Basket, Moses Chooses the Invisible over the Visible ect.
    Another example of you missing the point. You post whatever pops into your head
    Uh, yah, that came right out of my head. Righhhhht. It looks to be right out of the Bible. If anybody has any doubt, I will be happy to explain (explain the Power of faith!)?
    Not sure what my point might have been.
    That's the truest thing you've ever said here. Congratulations!
    Oh sure. You understand this!
    Thank you. 
    You can not see. You will not see.
    Want to provide some proof for that? No, I didn't think so.
    Why? You don't need any help from me, you've already provided it.
    What do you want?
    An intelligent conversation from you.
    Oh really. A typical conversation with Athos:- Nope, no it isn't, I don't care, your ingant, shut up nobody cares, faith is what ever I make it, one only need use his imagination, true faith is irrelevant.
    Should I adopt Athos Faith?
    Only if you know what it is. But you don't know.
    Sure I do. You've refuted the Bible- while claiming; NO I DID NOT! I was going to hop on to the other thread and post every single instance where you have refuted the Bible. I chose not to because it would take up too much space. You already stated; Faith is believe in a God of your own imagination...I mean WOW!
    You have it in your mind that the proof doesn't exist...no matter who provides it.
    If you provide proof, I'll be the first to admit it.
    Already been done, if you search through your posts you will knw what I know...your setting bait for Christians. Here Little Fishy, fishy, here little fishy...You are here to try and prove a point. You will admit nothing, you couldn't handle losing face.
    Even if Jesus come down in the Flesh, you still would not believe...FACT!
    No, not FACT! Just another touch of hysteria from your fevered mind.
    Sorry, but tis a FACT.  There is more than a good chance if Jesus was to come down and look me square in the eye- Come the next day I probably wouldn't have gained a thing, and I'd go right back to my life, same as it ever was. Look at John the Baptist, He Baptized Jesus, later he questioned who Jesus was?
    can you separate faith and logic...
    Huh? Sure. Faith is based on belief. Logic is based on reason. Faith is subjective. Logic is objective.
    Part of the reason that we strive to separate faith and logic is that logic demands proof and evidence while faith sees something as a reality which is yet unseen. You might have a good grasp on Logic but you have no comprehension of what faith is.

    Birds of a feather...
    I see now, WG and You Athos are missing something (that be the Bible). WG, Quote: "The Word of God is not the Bible." End Quote.
    Like I said, This is a learning experience for me and I will use as a reference. I always Appreciate your input jlisenbe. Athos Does get a guy thinking. Thank you both
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    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #17

    Apr 22, 2021, 04:23 AM
    Sure I do. You've refuted the Bible- while claiming; NO I DID NOT
    That's pretty much how it goes. There are many people who will believe the Bible in any way in which it agrees with them. When it disagrees with them they resort to disparaging the Bible, accusing us of "cherry-picking" or taking a text out of context, alleging the Bible is wholly metaphorical, and so forth. The bottom line is this. Something else other than the Bible is chiefly informing their beliefs, and that something else is their own opinions.
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    #18

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:04 AM
    The two posts above are singular for their glaring inability to read the posts of others and to comprehend them. Waldo's contribution is so off the mark that it's not worth replying to him anymore. Jl's is not much better as he continues with the same old tirade he has been promoting for so many months. Perfect bedfellows who can talk at each other until the cows come home. Have fun, lads.

    Some advice for both of them: FACTS are what is required here. Coherent facts. Not dream fantasies, imaginary beliefs, brainwashing from the cradle, threats to those holding different points of view, and so on and so forth.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #19

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    Some advice for both of them: FACTS are what is required here. Coherent facts. Not dream fantasies, imaginary beliefs, brainwashing from the cradle, threats to those holding different points of view, and so on and so forth.
    I've asked before and really wish waltero and even JL would post a numbered list of personal religious beliefs, each short and to the point -- sort of like an Apostles Creed for AMHD.
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    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #20

    Apr 22, 2021, 11:09 AM
    FACTS are what is required here.
    Not exactly. Your trying to bring Logic into matters of Faith(read topic).
    Coherent facts. Not dream fantasies, imaginary beliefs
    Sounds like what you are saying; Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination?
    Yes, So what is it, you want "Facts" ("real-world evidence outside of your imagination")?
    You seem to be confused. Your previous statements don't jive.

    No worries, I get confused all the time. Faith is a hard one to comprehend. Read the Bible, believe it and walk before Jesus, in Faith.
    Think of it like this; You are walking with a staff (Jesus being staff). You come to an Ocean and God tells you to raise the Staff, don't ask why, don't waste time thinking about how raising a staff is going to get you out of the terror that is about to strike you and your people, Just raise the staff knowing that God has your back. Once the staff is raised reality will present itself. You did nothing but hold the staff.

    I've asked before and really wish waltero and even JL would post a numbered list of personal religious beliefs
    I believe in GOD"S Faith, aka the Word of God.

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