[jlisenbe]

The apostles creed works well for me. It is a good foundation and a solid start. Not exhaustive but very good.

[Wondergirl]

The apostles creed works well for me. It is a good foundation and a solid start. Not exhaustive but very good.

It says what the main beliefs are, and is supplemented by the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds.

[waltero]

FACTS are what is required here.

Not exactly. Your trying to bring Logic into matters of Faith(read topic).

Coherent facts. Not dream fantasies, imaginary beliefs

Sounds like what you are saying; Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination?
Yes, So what is it, you want "Facts" ("real-world evidence outside of your imagination")?
You seem to be confused. Your previous statements don't jive.

No worries, I get confused all the time. Faith is a hard one to comprehend. Read the Bible, believe it and walk before Jesus in Faith.
Think of it like this; You are walking with a staff (Jesus being staff). You come to an Ocean and God tells you to raise the Staff, don't ask why, don't waste time thinking about how raising a staff is going to get you out of the terror that is about to strike you and your people, Just raise the staff knowing that God has your back. Once the staff is raised reality will present itself. You did nothing but hold the staff.
It had nothing to do with your plan. It had nothing to do with you. It is all about GOD'S plan.
Luke 19:40

And He answered and said, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!”

What do you make of this? would this be considered a "Fact"?

I've asked before and really wish waltero and even JL would post a numbered list of personal religious beliefs

I believe in GOD"S Faith, aka the Word of God.

[Wondergirl]

I believe in GOD"S Faith, aka the Word of God.

You don't believe in God's faith. YOU have faith in God. YOU (not God) are the one with faith. That's what "I believe" means -- "I have faith".

YOU believe in what the Bible says; YOU believe in God's Word.

[waltero]

You don't believe in God's faith. YOU have faith in God. YOU (not God) are the one with faith. That's what "I believe" means -- "I have faith".

Similar to, God like faith.
out of time right now. I can dive deeper into at a later date.
we get our faith from God...Even our faith is not our own. Absolutely nothing, nothing comes from us!

[Athos]

Sounds like what you are saying; Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination?
Yes, So what is it, you want "Facts" ("real-world evidence outside of your imagination")?
You seem to be confused. Your previous statements don't jive.

God knows whatever that's supposed to mean.

I get confused all the time.

Second truest statement from you ever!!

Think of it like this

Good grief! Just THINK! Your story is typically garbled meaning nothing.

I believe in GOD"S Faith, aka the Word of God.

"The lady doth protest too much."

[Wondergirl]

Similar to, God like faith.
out of time right now. I can dive deeper into at a later date.
we get our faith from God...Even our faith is not our own. Absolutely nothing, nothing comes from us!

The Holy Spirit gives us faith. What comes from us? -- we can reject it. There is no "God like faith".

[jlisenbe]

The Holy Spirit gives us faith.

Why do you believe that?

There is no "God like faith".

I tend to agree with that. I don't think God has "faith". God does not need it, or at least as I understand it.

[Wondergirl]

Why do you believe that?

It’s the work of the Holy Spirit to empower us to have faith so we understand and experience Christ and His love in our hearts.

Here's a cherry-picked verse just for you!
“I pray that out of his glorious riches, he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.” Eph. 3:16-17

[jlisenbe]

Your verse does not say that the Holy Spirit gives faith. In fact, in your verse, the Holy Spirit is the agent of power, not faith. "...he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit..." Now it says that Christ dwells in our hearts by faith, but it does not say that the faith spoken of is provided by the Spirit.

So you still have given no reason to believe that the Holy Spirit gives faith.

[Wondergirl]

Your verse does not say that the Holy Spirit gives faith. In fact, in your verse, the Holy Spirit is the agent of power, not faith. "...he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit..." Now it says that Christ dwells in our hearts by faith, but it does not say that the faith spoken of is provided by the Spirit.

So you still have given no reason to believe that the Holy Spirit gives faith.

"...so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith..." I will do more cherrypicking, or will you always spit on my proof passages?

[jlisenbe]

Your proof passages need to offer some proof. That one does not say that the Holy Spirit gives faith. It simply says Jesus dwells in our hearts through faith.

Keep looking. You are making no progress.

[Wondergirl]

Your proof passages need to offer some proof. That one does not say that the Holy Spirit gives faith. It simply says Jesus dwells in our hearts through faith.

Keep looking. You are making no progress.

You're full of applesauce!

"...through his Spirit in your inner being..."

Try Eph. 2:8-9.

[Athos]

You're full of applesauce!

HEY! This is a holy site - no cursing allowed.

[jlisenbe]

Eph. 2:8-9.

Now that is much better. But even there, it does not specify the Holy Spirit as the giver of faith, and it's not even clear that it is "faith" that is given rather than "grace". And the context added in verse 9 seems to indicate that it is the salvation itself that is the gift, for what is it that is, "not as a result of works"? Is it not salvation itself? At any rate, it never said the Holy Spirit gives faith.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Keep trying.

[Wondergirl]

Now that is much better. But even there, it does not specify the Holy Spirit as the giver of faith, and it's not even clear that it is "faith" that is given rather than "grace". And the context added in verse 9 seems to indicate that it is the salvation itself that is the gift, for what is it that is, "not as a result of works"? Is it not salvation itself? At any rate, it never said the Holy Spirit gives faith.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Keep trying.

No, you lost on this one. The Holy Spirit is one of the three members of the Trinity, meaning God (God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit)..

[jlisenbe]

That's a weak argument. It's like saying the Holy Spirit died on the cross since, after all, "The Holy Spirit is one of the three members of the Trinity, meaning God (God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit), " or that the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus since, after all, "The Holy Spirit is one of the three members of the Trinity, meaning God (God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit)."

And besides all of that, as I pointed out above, it is not clear at all if it is "faith" that is being spoken of as "the gift of God".



You still have not said what happens to those who reject the Gospel.

[Wondergirl]

That's a weak argument. It's like saying the Holy Spirit died on the cross since, after all, "The Holy Spirit is one of the three members of the Trinity, meaning God (God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit)."

You still have not said what happens to those who reject the Gospel.

You don't believe in the Trinity?

I did answer that.

[jlisenbe]

You don't believe in the Trinity?

I do. You still have not posted any scripture which says the Holy Spirit gives faith. Keep trying.

I did answer that

This was your weak as water reply. "We are always on the prowl (lookout) for them to show them our love and, through that love, witness to them."

So I guess I need to be more specific. What happens to them if they die after rejecting and never accepting the Gospel? "It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment."

What then?

[Wondergirl]

I do. You still have not posted any scripture which says the Holy Spirit gives faith. Keep trying.

Comprehension again! It. Is. The. Gift. Of. God.

No, you haven't.

It was on the other thread where you asked and I answered.