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waltero · Apr 20, 2021, 04:03 PM

It was intended to show the wrong approach of evangelicals (and some other Christians)

You are trying to make a case rather than someone seeking to establish the truth- yes?

God’s existence cannot be proven with certainty

In your mind this is 100% true...no doubt what so ever?

Wondergirl · Apr 20, 2021, 04:22 PM

Athos said: God’s existence cannot be proven with certainty

Originally Posted by waltero

In your mind this is 100% true...no doubt what so ever?

waltero, please prove God's existence.

waltero · Apr 20, 2021, 04:30 PM

waltero, please prove God's existence.

That's all too easy.
GOD says it, I believe it.

wrong approach of evangelicals (and some other Christians).

Do you mean approaching it with a childlike faith...If you can't do it in faith - if you can't do it in confidence - don't do it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaM9J2VHLf8

All that [is] not of faith is sin.

Wondergirl · Apr 20, 2021, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by waltero

That's all too easy.
GOD says it, I believe it.

God whispered in your ear? "God says it" is not proof. It's faith. Belief is faith, not proof.

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 06:04 AM

WG, as far as I can tell you seem to believe in God. Why do you believe?

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

WG, as far as I can tell you seem to believe in God. Why do you believe?

Why? because He has been with me throughout my life, has loved me and taken care of me and led me into very personally satisfying careers and connections where I am able to, with His guidance and support, help others feel better about themselves and also come to love and thank Him.

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 09:51 AM

Do you have evidence outside of your own personal experience? Just asking.

I'll even tell you why I ask. If a person can appeal to nothing outside of personal experience, then he/she has no real answer if a second person comes along and says, "I don't believe in God because He has never been with me throughout my life. I don't believe he has loved me and taken care of me. I found very personally satisfying careers and connections completely on my own with no need for his help. I have been able to accomplish many wonderful things in my life all on my own, so I know there is no god and thus I have no need to love or thank Him." Aside from suggesting your own personal experience is somehow more valid or accurate than his or hers, there is no other direction to go in.

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Do you have evidence outside of your own personal experience? Just asking.

Of course I do! My eyes and my mind and my heart have always been wide open to others' experiences and opinions. E.g., my Wiccan trans woman friend says pretty much what you quoted above.

As I said earlier, I am able to, with His guidance and support, help others feel better about themselves and also come to love and thank Him.

Athos · Apr 21, 2021, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

As I said earlier, I am able to, with His guidance and support, help others feel better about themselves and also come to love and thank Him.

You split an infinitive. I'm reporting you.

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Athos

You split an infinitive. I'm reporting you.

I went back and changed it from unsplit to split, hoping you would amble past and notice.

Athos · Apr 21, 2021, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I went back and changed it from unsplit to split, hoping you would amble past and notice.

WOW - you are one tricky Christian!!

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 12:08 PM

Of course I do!

Not sure what you are referring to. If you mean the personal experiences of others, then you are still have the same dilemma. Your friend, for instance, if she would say my quote from above, is saying there is no God. So does it all come down to, in your view, personal opinion?

So in other words, do you see any reason to believe in God other than the personal experiences and opinions of people?

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not sure what you are referring to. If you mean the personal experiences of others, then you are still have the same dilemma. Your friend, for instance, if she would say my quote from above, is saying there is no God. So does it all come down to, in your view, personal opinion?

So in other words, do you see any reason to believe in God other than the personal experiences and opinions of people?

As I posted earlier, "because He has been with me throughout my life, has loved me and taken care of me and led me into very personally satisfying careers..."

The promises in the Bible are fulfilled as we live our lives. Read Psalm 23.

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 12:13 PM

Never mind.

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Never mind.

Don't go there!

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 12:51 PM

You don't understand the question. It's OK.

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You don't understand the question. It's OK.

Then restate it in clear English -- simply stated, not convoluted.

waltero · Apr 21, 2021, 01:23 PM

The promises in the Bible are fulfilled as we live our lives.

I think is what you meant to say; The promises in the Bible are fulfilled as we live Gods Word (a Godly life, the life of Jesus)

Your Welcome ;-)

jlisenbe · Apr 21, 2021, 01:24 PM

As I posted earlier, "because He has been with me throughout my life, has loved me and taken care of me and led me into very personally satisfying careers..."

There was nothing not in clear English or "convoluted" the first time, but I will give it another shot. Those are all personal experiences. That's fine, but do you see any evidence for God outside of your personal experiences or the personal experiences of others?

The promises in the Bible are fulfilled as we live our lives. Read Psalm 23.

You would refer to this as "cherry-picking" if I had posted it. But if you believe Psalm 23, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in this passage from John 3? "32 He (Jesus) testifies to what he has seen and heard, and yet no one accepts his testimony. 33 The one who has accepted his testimony has affirmed that God is true. 34 For the one whom God sent speaks God’s words, since he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hands. 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him."

Wondergirl · Apr 21, 2021, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Those are all personal experiences. That's fine, but do you see any evidence for God outside of your personal experiences or the personal experiences of others?

If I see it, feel it, taste it, hear it, smell it, it's part of my personal experiences. What else is there?

You would refer to this as "cherry-picking" if I had posted it.

I did that on purpose, knowing you'd understand.

But if you believe Psalm 23, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in this passage from John 3? "32 He (Jesus) testifies to what he has seen and heard, and yet no one accepts his testimony. 33 The one who has accepted his testimony has affirmed that God is true. 34 For the one whom God sent speaks God’s words, since he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hands. 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him."

I don't???