[jlisenbe]

The liberal dems will spend us into oblivion. These new taxes will only pay for half of a new infrastructure plan which spends a lot of money on things other than infrastructure. The bill is going to come due at some point in the future and then we will regret our stupidity.

[paraclete]

stop deflecting and admit you are not the superior being you claim to be

[jlisenbe]

We are not the superior being many of us claim to be. Neither are you the superior being you claim Aussie land to be.

Does that suit you?

However, this is still quite true. " If not for us, there would be no free Israel. There would be no free Kuwait. There would be no free Europe, and there would be no free Australia."

[talaniman]

yup America first

Yup, and if done right many can benefit. Most will follow good example!!

[paraclete]

We are not the superior being many of us claim to be. Neither are you the superior being you claim Aussie land to be.

Does that suit you?

However, this is still quite true. " If not for us, there would be no free Israel. There would be no free Kuwait. There would be no free Europe, and there would be no free Australia."

we bow before your beneficence, tell me if you can, when did you tear down the Berlin wall or free Poland or the Balkans. Your mighty war machine was hard pressed to roll back the Germans beyond Normandy or climb the Italian peninsular while the Russians were rolling over eastern Europe and you were happy for them to take and enslave that. You should read the history of the second world war some time, it may surprise you

[jlisenbe]

I have read it extensively for decades. Australia is mentioned only infrequently. And your remarks about the taking of Normandy and Italy, at a cost of tens of thousands of American lives, is so stupid that it is amazing even for you.

It would help if you were not so jealous of our country. It is clear in many of your comments.

[paraclete]

We are not the superior being many of us claim to be. Neither are you the superior being you claim Aussie land to be.

I never claimed to be superior, but in some respects this land is superior at least in its ethos

Does that suit you?

no you are still deflecting, we weren't discussing Australia but America

However, this is still quite true. " If not for us, there would be no free Israel. There would be no free Kuwait. There would be no free Europe, and there would be no free Australia."

you have a peculiar sense of history, you don't do what you do to free anyone but for your own sectarian interests, America is afterall the second Israel and Saddam was a monster of your own making. You held off intervening in Europe until Japan forced you into the war and you would have had no interest in Australia if it had not been for that

[jlisenbe]

And we still have but little interest in Australia. And if everyone there is like you, then I would suggest we have no interest at all.

[paraclete]

I have read it extensively for decades. Australia is mentioned only infrequently. And your remarks about the taking of Normandy and Italy, at a cost of tens of thousands of American lives, is so stupid that it is amazing even for you.

It would help if you were not so jealous of our country. It is clear in many of your comments.

Jl, I am not jealous of your country, if not for the Murdoch press we would know as little about what goes on over there as you know about us. Yes Australia is forgotten in those rarified circles you travel in, excepting when you decide to go to war, but we fought in both world wars with distinction long before you got off your collective arses so don't think jealous, think distain. I don't like your attitude

[jlisenbe]

The feeling is mutual.

[tomder55]

I follow Aussie news . That is why i know that you have a new kick a$$ Defense Minister in Peter Dutton who understands how important it is to align with the US against the Chi-coms

[paraclete]

Dutton is an opportunist, so yes we can expect more of the same. I'm not sure an aggressive stance is in our best interests but we certainly need to do some push back as China has singled us out on trade.

You guys have some important decisions to make regarding Taiwan and the Philippines as both are in China's sights, Biden has been a little silent

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...alia/100056942

[tomder55]

Quid will do nothing . That is why China even thinks they can make the moves they are making . Add India where "Maoists " attacked . China had nothing to do with that either .
India Naxal attack: At least 22 security personnel in Chhattisgarh killed in clash with Maoist insurgents - CNN

China needs push back from the Quad in a hurry . (United States, Japan, Australia and India )

[paraclete]

Quid will do nothing . That is why China even thinks they can make the moves they are making . Add India where "Maoists " attacked . China had nothing to do with that either .
India Naxal attack: At least 22 security personnel in Chhattisgarh killed in clash with Maoist insurgents - CNN

China needs push back from the Quad in a hurry . (United States, Japan, Australia and India )

Is Quid invested in the Quad? perhaps from an opportunist point of view, only the US and Japan have interests invested in Taiwan, and only if China attacks the US should we get involved, Dutton might have a different view. I can't see the US fighting Maoists in India, besides India is big enough to look after itself.

You can't use the Quad as your policeman in Asia, you need to do your own heavy lifting

[tomder55]

the common link is China aggression .

btw ; if you need an example of how Quid will confront being challenged on the International state all you need to see is his decision to NOT enforce sanctions against Iran

US 'Monitoring' as Iran Sends Fuel Tankers to Venezuela in Defiance of Sanctions | Voice of America - English (voanews.com)

All you need to see is how on US soil ;Secretary of State Tony Blinken and Quid's National security Advisor Jake Sullivan got spanked by the Chinese

[Athos]

Your mighty war machine was hard pressed to roll back the Germans beyond Normandy or climb the Italian peninsular while the Russians were rolling over eastern Europe and you were happy for them to take and enslave that. You should read the history of the second world war some time, it may surprise you

This is correct.

The problem with most Americans is that they get their view of WW2 in Europe through the propaganda films of Hollywood. It was necessary at the time to unite the nation in wartime, but it was never corrected post-war. There were simply far too many casualties from fighting overseas to even attempt a correction. This is not to say America didn't pay an enormous price in blood and treasure as did many nations engaged in that conflict. The defeat of Japan was primarily an American show leading the Allied forces in that theater.

Europe, however, was a different story. The Russians were responsible for defeating 75-85% of the German war machine on the Eastern Front. Normandy has incorrectly been called the greatest invasion in history. The truth is it was dwarfed by the German invasion of Russia in 1941 - nearly 4,000,000 men (Germans) over a thousand mile front.

American intervention in WW1, however, was decisive - late, but decisive.

[jlisenbe]

No America in WW2 would have equaled German victory. German industry would not have been destroyed by the American bombing campaign. The American air and naval contributions are what you folks keep forgetting. It made an enormous difference. The German air power in the East would have been a difference maker.

[paraclete]

No America in WW2 would have equaled German victory. German industry would not have been destroyed by the American bombing campaign. The American air and naval contributions are what you folks keep forgetting. It made an enormous difference. The German air power in the East would have been a difference maker.

Funny sense of History, you have drunk the Koolaid

No America in WW2 would have meant a Soviet takeover of Europe. Germany was never going to win, it lacked the natural resources, Hitler also lacked that sense of history, failure to conquer the Soviets in six months, meant absolute failure. America wasn't on the horizon at that time, still partying on. The fact is that the allies won WWII, but America alone would have had a difficult task. The British empire, despite its vast resources, couldn't do it alone. As to air power it was the British that smashed the Luftwaffe and denied Hitler air power in the east

[jlisenbe]

The fact is that the allies won WWII, but America alone would have had a difficult task. The British empire, despite its vast resources, couldn't do it alone.

That's a fair statement.

As to air power it was the British that smashed the Luftwaffe and denied Hitler air power in the east

That's an incorrect statement. The Brits had to bomb at night because they could not protect their bombers in the daytime. It was American daylight bombing that eventually crushed the Luftwaffe and destroyed Germany's industry. The destruction of that industry directly contributed to Germany's defeat.

[tomder55]

of course the Russians would have been overwhelmed early in the war if not for American aid .The Lend Lease Act funneled $11.3 billion in US arms to the Russians ($180 billion in today's dollars ) In the 1st 18 months of the Russian campaign (after Hitler betrayed an alliance with Stalin......let's not make the Russians heroes here . ) ;the Red Army suffered massive defeats and tremendous losses . The reason that they were able to turn the tide was US aid and the leadership of the most brilliant ,and unknown to the West ,Generals in the war..... Georgy Zhukov .

First he gave the Japanese an a$$ whooping at Khalkhin Gol .It was a decisive annihilation that completely changed the course of the war. After the battle ,the Japanese abandoned the idea of taking Siberia and concentrated in the Pacific. That inevitably led to a clash between Japan and the US .It also guaranteed that Russia would not have to fight a 2 front war.
Then Zhukov was recalled to Moscow . He successfully defended the city .He then went to Stalingrad .He defended the city and then inflicted a massive defeat on the Germans ..

America made Ike a national hero and President . But Stalin obsessed with jealousy and paranoia humiliated and demoted Zhukov. He could not execute Zhukov because Zhukov was so popular . But he guaranteed that Zhukov would not ever be a threat to him .
Eventually he was rehabilitated after Stalin's death.

Anyway Yes the Russians paid a heavy price for their ill conceived alliance with Hitler .And they did the bulk of the fighting against Germany . But the US and Germany were both in 2 front wars while Russia only had to concern themselves with Germany . The Russians received massive US aid .
The decision to let the Russians do the bulk of the heavy lift after D Day was just a poor decision by Roosevelt . What it did was give us a generation of cold war with Russia enslaving half of Europe. . After the Battle of the Bulge ;we should have rushed as fast as we could to Berlin instead of crossing the Rhine and ending offensive actions .