[jlisenbe]

The winning of the Battle of the Atlantic was also a decisive, largely American victory. If German submarines had prevailed, Britain would have been strangled and the Russians weakened by a lack of foreign resources. Whoever was responsible for the development of the T-34 tank in Russia should have received the most valuable player award. It was an enormous difference maker, both in combat effectiveness and in numbers produced.

[paraclete]

If the battle of the atlantic was so decisive how come the americans don't make movies about it. What stuffed the nazi submarines was the British breaking of the enigma code

[jlisenbe]

If the battle of the atlantic was so decisive how come the americans don't make movies about it.

There have been many movies made about it. The most recent is Tom Hanks in Greyhound. U-571, Das Boot and The Enemy Below also come to mind, but I was not aware that the historical significance of an event is determined in Australia by how many movies are made. Interesting.

What stuffed the nazi submarines was the British breaking of the enigma code.

That was certainly significant, as was the capture of an actual Enigma code machine off of U-571 by the Americans. The Poles actually made the first real progress towards breaking Enigma in 41. So it was a team effort, but only the arrival of American air and naval assets, including airborne radar, in the Atlantic allowed the allies to easily find German subs on the surface, usually at night, and destroy them. This accelerated enormously beginning in May of 43 with the result that the Germans had to greatly pull back on their submarine efforts.

[tomder55]

I'd say it was the heroic merchant sailors who moved their ships across the Atlantic despite the heavy losses that won the battle . The Brit break of Enigma was critical as well as the Americans organizing the ships into convoys guarded by the Allied navies .There was also the factor of American long range escort planes that gave cover to the convoys .

[paraclete]

You are an idiot

[jlisenbe]

There was also the factor of American long range escort planes that gave cover to the convoys .

Very true, and the rapid development and deployment of escort carriers by the dozens helped a great deal as well.

[tomder55]

You are an idiot

MOI ?

[paraclete]

No Jl

[jlisenbe]

Mr. Cheerful is back online. Clete's sharp intellect is on full display. He still can't get over the fact that the Aussies didn't win the war single handed. Or at least there are no movies being made to that effect, and he thinks that is how history is recorded.

[paraclete]

Mr. Cheerful is back online. Clete's sharp intellect is on full display. He still can't get over the fact that the Aussies didn't win the war single handed. Or at least there are no movies being made to that effect, and he thinks that is how history is recorded.

Jl, we played a momentous part in WWII, as a small nation we punched above our weight, particularly in the Battle of Britain, the western desert and in Singapore and New Guinea. History is recorded by the victors and sugar coated, therefore the americans won the war while the rest of the allies watched, or at least, this is what you obviously think. Give credit where credit is due, you sacrificed a vast number of men and aircraft to bring victory

[jlisenbe]

I’m not sure what you’re upset about. I think your paragraph is pretty accurate. I have great respect for your country. I do get tired of the nonstop vitriol directed at mine by you. Perhaps we can call a truce. A little mutual respect?

[jlisenbe]

Or is it easier to just toss invectives like "idiot" around and thus not have to think any?

[waltero]

Only when America entered the war was it decided.

Germany's Failure in North Africa was the beginning of the End.

[jlisenbe]

The comments made about the enormous contributions of the Russians are valid. I don't dispute any of that, and it's possible that even without our contributions, the Russians might have still prevailed. But it's far from certain, and the world surely would have ended up with a far less happy post-war era where the Soviets would have dominated all of Europe including, eventually, the U.K.

[Athos]

it's possible that even without our contributions, the Russians might have still prevailed. But it's far from certain,

By mid-1943, it was as certain as anything can be in wartime. The Western Allies were already discussing what the post-war world would look like, and they were purposefully delaying the invasion of Europe to let the Russians bear the brunt of defeating Germany. Stalin suspected this but was mollified by the promise of an air campaign over Germany to smash their war industries. Japan was certain to be defeated the day after Pearl Harbor.

There was much fighting left to do, but the outcome was never seriously in doubt.

[jlisenbe]

I just don't think that's true. If the Germans had been able to run their industry without damage, continue to dominate the Atlantic, and not have to defend the west, then it could have a different story. I guess, thankfully, we'll never know for sure.

At mid 1943, the U.S. had been in the war for a year and a half.

[waltero]

Most German commanders probably knew it yet in 1943 (and all of them in the Summer of 1944).

While civilians - probably when they saw first Soviet troops. Before that they believed in propaganda (secret weapons).

When my uncle was 14 he went to Germany, for a visit in 1936
Joined the Hitler youth. Has some interesting stories.
Came back to America after the War. Movie was mentioned but his wife was against it.
He was a bit upset when the Americans took his medals.

[talaniman]

My peeps served in the 2nd WW, but didn't get the hero welcome when they came back to reality...I mean America.

Isaac Woodard - Wikipedia

[Athos]

I just don't think that's true.

The actual history of the war is the reality - not what you think.

If the Germans had been able to run their industry without damage, continue to dominate the Atlantic, and not have to defend the west, then it could have a different story.

What-ifs serve no purpose. If Russia had been allied with Germany, if the US had not entered the war, etc., etc., "it could have been a different story". You can create any kind of scenario to imagine a different outcome. What's the point? It has no bearing on the reality.

I guess, thankfully, we'll never know for sure.

Ridiculous statement. Fantasizing about a war that never was, and then questioning the outcome of the fantasy as if it had any real-world meaning is absurd.

At mid 1943, the U.S. had been in the war for a year and a half.

At mid-1943, the US had not set a foot on European soil yet. What's the point?

My peeps served in the 2nd WW, but didn't get the hero welcome when they came back to reality...I mean America.

I had a first cousin who was sunk off Indonesia in the submarine USS Barbel. That boat is carried on the lists as "On Eternal Patrol". He died before I was born.

[jlisenbe]

You can create any kind of scenario to imagine a different outcome. What's the point? It has no bearing on the reality.

That's the genesis of this whole discussion. What if the U.S. had not entered the war.

At mid-1943, the US had not set a foot on European soil yet. What's the point?

We were fighting in Sicily and preparing to invade Italy. We were fighting in the Atlantic and had, at that point, defeated the German submarine menace. We were fighting in the air over Germany. We were shipping convoy after convoy of war goods to the Soviets. That's the point. If the outcome was indeed determined in mid-43, then we had played a major role in that.