[waltero]

Augustus Toplady puts it masterfully, doesn’t he?

Nothing in my hand I bring,
And simply to your cross I cling;
And naked, come to you for dress;
And helpless, come to you for rest;
And I, the foul one, to your fountain fly;
I want you to wash me, Jesus, or I’ll die.

What does God do with the rest of humanity - the billions not chosen?

Is this your hang up? I don't think he's going to throw a party for them, if that's what you mean.

[Wondergirl]

Augustus Toplady puts it masterfully, doesn’t he?

Nothing in my hand I bring,
And simply to your cross I cling;
And naked, come to you for dress;
And helpless, come to you for rest;
And I, the foul one, to your fountain fly;
I want you to wash me, Jesus, or I’ll die.[18]

But if Jesus didn't choose Augustus Toplady to be saved, what will happen to him?

[Athos]

Augustus Toplady puts it masterfully, doesn’t he?

You're off your meds again, aren't you? Try and stick to the topic.

[waltero]

But if Jesus didn't choose Augustus Toplady to be saved, what will happen to him?

When Jesus said, "Few there are who find it" he is not talking about God’s way, for God wants everyone to find it and walk it. Rather Jesus is stating the choice mankind makes. Few follow God’s plan, many reject it.

Your asking the Wrong Questions. What path are you following?

[Athos]

Your asking the Wrong Questions.

Oh God, what could be more evasive then changing the question? You are some piece of work, W.

[Wondergirl]

When Jesus said, "Few there are who find it" he is not talking about God’s way, for God wants everyone to find it and walk it. Rather Jesus is stating the choice mankind makes. Few follow God’s plan, many reject it.

Your asking the Wrong Questions. What path are you following?

You said in post #61, "The Word of God is clear: believers are those whom God chose for salvation from before the beginning." What if God didn't choose Augustus Toplady -- or me -- or you?

[jlisenbe]

Hell (Gehenna - the Valley of Hinnom, a place near Jerusalem where children were sacrificed to Baal) was a horror that the people of Jesus' time understood. If Jesus were physically here with us today in 2021, what meaningful-to-us reference would he use to describe a modern place of pain and suffering?

So what's your point? Are you really suggesting that "hell" to Jesus was just a reference to a garbage dump?

[Wondergirl]

So what's your point? Are you really suggesting that "hell" to Jesus was just a reference to a garbage dump?

Did you read what I had posted?:
Hell (Gehenna - the Valley of Hinnom, a place near Jerusalem where children were sacrificed to Baal) was a horror that the people of Jesus' time understood. If Jesus were physically here with us today in 2021, what meaningful-to-us reference would he use to describe a modern place of pain and suffering?

[waltero]

I also said this: We must first define what salvation means as it pertains to eternity.
In response to this:

That has nothing to do with what I said. They lived long before the Bible was even thought of, or, if it had been written, had no knowledge of it.

Giving you this:

believers are those whom God chose for salvation from before the beginning

You can't get passed the Hell factor. You hear nothing because you don't want to believe that an all loving God would punish the ones that you love. Is their blood on your hands?

[jlisenbe]

Did you read what I had posted?:



Hell (Gehenna - the Valley of Hinnom, a place near Jerusalem where children were sacrificed to Baal) was a horror that the people of Jesus' time understood. If Jesus were physically here with us today in 2021, what meaningful-to-us reference would he use to describe a modern place of pain and suffering?

I did. Did you read my question? "So what's your point? Are you really suggesting that "hell" to Jesus was just a reference to a garbage dump?"

[Wondergirl]

I did. Did you read my question? "So what's your point? Are you really suggesting that "hell" to Jesus was just a reference to a garbage dump?"

It was very symbolic, a place of pain and suffering (N.B. bolded words). Is hell a real place? What would be comparable for us in the 21st century?

[waltero]

Did you read my question?

We already know the answer to that. They Have no understanding because they are focused on the path that leads to destruction. If they only did an about-face! It's not a gospel of hell but a gospel of Heaven.

[Athos]

We already know the answer to that. They Have no understanding because they are focused on the path that leads to destruction. If they only did an about-face! It's not a gospel of hell but a gospel of Heaven.

Answer the question, waldo. The board is watching and waiting.

[waltero]

Answer the question, waldo. The board is watching and waiting.

It doesn't matter (already answered) your response will be the same...same as it ever was.
[what about those who don't believe. What about Hell. What about me, you and a dog named Blue.]
When it comes to Hell, I don't have an answer for you. If you are questioning my Salvation, I refer you to Jesus, ask the Bible.

The Word of God is clear: believers are those whom God chose for salvation from before the beginning.

Perhaps understanding the exclusivity of salvation together with the doctrine of election may help
understand why this is not an 'unfair' doctrine.

The idea that God does what He wants, and that what He does is true and right because He does it, is foundational to our understanding of everything in Scripture.

[jlisenbe]

It was very symbolic, a place of pain and suffering (N.B. bolded words). Is hell a real place? What would be comparable for us in the 21st century?

Jesus certainly considered hell to be a real place.

[Wondergirl]

Jesus certainly considered hell to be a real place.

It was a terrific illustrative device for making His point, wasn't it!

[Athos]

When it comes to Hell, I don't have an answer for you.

Thank you, Waltero. I appreciate an honest answer like you have given here. Until next time, go in peace.