[talaniman]

what part of 'that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ' don't you understand ? Yes the 2nd amendment is endowed by God because self defense is an unalienable right .

Madison answered that in Federalist 51 . paraphrase ... if men were angels no government would be necessary . Jefferson also answered that in the Declaration when he wrote immediately after the 'consent of governed ' quote that when government becomes the enemies of rights then the governed have the right to (dissolve) the relationship...to take up arms to remove the government . The anti-tyranny justification for the 2nd amendment is real.

That's what the elections are about Tom, because who wants a shooting war in America again? Didn't we learn our lesson? So drop the government tyranny crap and rightwing shenanigans and lies and count ALL the votes. Maybe if you guys had better ideas instead of tricks and traps based on fear and hate and ego tripping we could actually govern for the good of EVERYBODY and not just the select few.

You upgrade/update your puter don't you? The same applies to ideas. At least be as smart as the homicidal loonies and criminals plaguing the land. Why be stuck in the past? The founders had their day, and now its ours!

[paraclete]

250 years means nothing Tal, nostalgia rules

[jlisenbe]

Just ignore the law. Play it by ear!

Is this now the slogan of liberal dems? If so, then don't be shocked where it takes you.

[paraclete]

laws should change with the times, isn't this what the demonrats want?

[talaniman]

Just ignore the law. Play it by ear!

Is this now the slogan of liberal dems? If so, then don't be shocked where it takes you.

Nobody says ignore the law, just it's a question of the intent of repubs making and changing the law, and worse LYING about it when everybody knows it goes back to the shenanigans after the south was defeated.

[jlisenbe]

laws should change with the times, isn't this what the demonrats want?

There is a great difference between changing the law and ignoring it.

[Athos]

You upgrade/update your puter don't you? The same applies to ideas. At least be as smart as the homicidal loonies and criminals plaguing the land. Why be stuck in the past? The founders had their day, and now its ours!

Based on common sense rather than originalism or textualism, this is most succinct and very to the point.

The Republicans/Conservatives/right-wing cannot even see what was most obvious to the world - that the Jan 6 mob was an insurrectionary mob dedicated to the overthrow of the government by reversing the presidential election. Some Republicans - Constitutionalists all - even supported the insurrection by not condemning it.

[waltero]

see what was most obvious to the world -insurrectionary mob dedicated to the overthrow of the government

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...9&&FORM=VDRVRV

Yup, Dedicated Mob the World has ever seen!

[tomder55]

somei ideas are ageless and don't need upgrading . But I get the Dem . If they can't pass the laws they want under existing rules ;change the rules .

[Athos]

somei ideas are ageless and don't need upgrading

True enough, the key word being "some".

Some morals (morality) in the past are immoral today.

Some things that were immoral are now moral.

Change is inevitable.

[jlisenbe]

True moral values don't change. Our perceptions of them might, but not the values themselves. That idea of permanence was the foundation of the D of I. "Endowed by their Creator"

[Athos]

True moral values don't change. Our perceptions of them might, but not the values themselves.

What is that supposed to mean?

That idea of permanence was the foundation of the D of I. "Endowed by their Creator"

Do you mean the same guy who wrote "all men are created equal" while owning human beings as slaves and raping Sally Hemmings for years? That guy?

[talaniman]

somei ideas are ageless and don't need upgrading . But I get the Dem . If they can't pass the laws they want under existing rules ;change the rules .

Like voter suppression laws after the biggest fraud free election in our history? Like SCOTUS picks? Yeah I get repubs.

You holler woke and cancel culture while you run amok for years woking and cancelling folks at will! Yeah I get repubs! It's okay when you do it, but can't stand to have it done to you.

[jlisenbe]

What is that supposed to mean? Well, just use your second comment as an example. Is rape always wrong, or might that evolve over time to become merely inconvenient? In my view it is always wrong due to the view of our Creator. True moral values are timeless.

[Athos]

Well, just use your second comment as an example. Is rape always wrong, or might that evolve over time to become merely inconvenient?

Why do you think rape might evolve over time to be merely inconvenient?

In my view it is always wrong due to the view of our Creator.

Your creator commanded us not to covet our neighbor's goods. Coveting is what drives the consumer economy. Is it immoral?

True moral values are timeless.

Can you tell us what the true timeless moral values are? I'm not denying there are some, but how many - or what are they?

[jlisenbe]

Why do you think rape might evolve over time to be merely inconvenient?

You missed the point. If "change is inevitable" in morality, then rape cannot be looked upon as a fixed moral standard. If it is fixed, then change is not only not inevitable, it is impossible.

Your creator commanded us not to covet our neighbor's goods. Coveting is what drives the consumer economy. Is it immoral?

The Bible does not prohibit desiring to possess something (coveting). It prohibits desiring to possess what belongs to someone else. " Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his , nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." So it's fine to desire a wife, but not your neighbor's wife. Commercial commerce would not fall generally under that category.

Can you tell us what the true timeless moral values are? I'm not denying there are some, but how many - or what are they?

There is no point in talking about WHAT they are until it can first be established that they DO exist. Once that is accepted, then your question of "what they are" becomes a big one.

[Athos]

You missed the point. If "change is inevitable" in morality, then rape cannot be looked upon as a fixed moral standard. If it is fixed, then change is not only not inevitable, it is impossible.

You didn't answer the question. It was - Why do you think rape might evolve over time to be merely inconvenient? (Even if change is inevitable? Not to obscure the question, but change being inevitable does not mean every single thing is changeable).

The Bible does not prohibit desiring to possess something (coveting). It prohibits desiring to possess what belongs to someone else. " Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his , nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." So it's fine to desire a wife, but not your neighbor's wife. Commercial commerce would not fall generally under that category.

You got me on this one.

There is no point in talking about WHAT they are until it can first be established that they DO exist.

I don't agree with this one. You can talk about anything under the sun. Also, but not only, because talking about what they are would help to establish in the first place just what they are. But the more important point is the first one.

Once that is accepted, then your question of "what they are" becomes a big one.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Examining "what they are" necessarily precedes acceptance.

[jlisenbe]

Since I don’t believe change in true morality is “inevitable”, then I don’t think rape should subject to change.

[jlisenbe]

Absolutely not. Accepting that morality is fixed must be established before deciding what that involves. The corral must be built before buying the ponies.

[paraclete]

the ponies just jump the fence, because they love freedom, freedom and morality can't live side by side in the same corral