[talaniman]

And better teacher training? Safer, better constructed schools?

Of course.

[tomder55]

why is public school your 1st option ? Set education standards at government levels and let schools compete to meet them. No one has convinced me that public school systems should even be the primary choice option . You have to get away from your status quo bias . The public school system is a failure and will be no matter how much money you pour into it . The price per student in public schools is twice what it is in public schools . Do you think you are getting twice the bang for the buck based on student performance ? Fund schools as we do through the property tax system and then give vouchers ,scholarship ,and grants ; and give parents the choice (I thought libs like choice) to decide which school to send their children to. If there were no public schools at all I guarantee that private schools would be easily be founded to fill the difference .

[talaniman]

For a vast majority it's the only choice and you've never answered the question of what happens to them. Seems to me that public schools would have been run out of business if indeed they were that much better. We can debate the union/nonunion benefits/issues all you want, and I can see parents having choices, subsidized or not, but whether you have a voucher or not, sitting on a waiting list for a few years doesn't help those parents.

What do you do while waiting your turn on a list? Do they hire more teachers or build more classrooms? What kind of pay and benefits do these non union charter schools offer? Answer some of those questions and save me the marketing spin.

[tomder55]

Seems to me that public schools would have been run out of business if indeed they were that much better.

hard to run something out of business that is mandated by law.

sitting on a waiting list for a few years doesn't help those parents.

that would not be an issue if there were more of them .

All you are using is strawmen issues that would be part of a transition. The bottom line is that public school system is a failure and you are happy with the status quo evidently

[talaniman]

Not at all, I just don't trust your end game. There is no such thing as the free market. There is always a cost to pay if you can afford it. Small ineffective government works great for the monied decision makers using my state as a perfect example, but for ordinary throw away folks not so much. For you capitalism is the solution for everything but I disagree with the reforms you're proposing. I don't think you've made the case for transitioning from a public school system to a private one by blasting teachers unions or educational failures.

Even if you're half right you haven't shown the basics of dealing with those who go through the transitions no more than any other repub who wants a new world order. So yeah I guess I'm guilty as charged about that status quo thing because I've seen how the free market transitions people. Too much money from my pocket and too few options to replace it.

[tomder55]

who said anything about free market ? I clearly stated

Set education standards at government levels and let schools compete to meet them.

Even if you're half right you haven't shown the basics of dealing with those who go through the transitions no more than any other repub

and yet every Dem program has horrible unintended consequences that Dems shrug their shoulders at ; say well we intended to do good ;and that it would've worked if we had just thrown more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at it . With the money spend on education in this country the schools should have gold tiles on the floors . How do you justify a public system that leaves so many students behind or failures ? And don't talk about it being a poverty issue . I know a number of people who have high school diplomas with less than an 8th grade reading level and would be totally lost doing basic math if they did not have calculators or 10 fingers .

[jlisenbe]

If you want to look at the advantages of a free market system, just compare cars or stoves to public education. The former has produced high quality through innovation while the latter is frequently stuck in mediocrity.

[Wondergirl]

How do you justify a public system that leaves so many students behind or failures ? And don't talk about it being a poverty issue . I know a number of people who have high school diplomas with less than an 8th grade reading level and would be totally lost doing basic math if they did not have calculators or 10 fingers .

Teacher training and education is the big problem!

[jlisenbe]

Teacher training is but a small part of it. But even at that, who controls teacher training? It is not the free market.

[tomder55]

Teacher training and education is the big problem!

Perhaps and how is that being addressed by the union that doesn't even want their rank and file working?

Sorry they loose all credibility with me when they have set up a system where 700 teachers (1 % of the total work force ) in NYC work out of rubber rooms . They get paid their full salaries to sit around ;free to read the newspaper, surf the internet, knit, chat or just doze off . Their cases never get resolved .

NYC pays 'rubber room' teacher six figures 20 years after sex abuse claims (nypost.com)

No matter what localities do to make the schools as safe as possible ;the unions push back . More safety precautions are needed for reopening, they say. The West Virginia state teachers’ unions filed a law suit to halt the states move to open the class rooms . In the Bellevue school district near Seattle, the teachers’ union encouraged some of its members to not show up to work in protest of the district’s expansion of in-person learning .The town took the union to court .

Study after study shows that covid transmission rates in schools are relatively low when mitigation strategies are in place . In California and Fairfax VA ; even getting vaccinated in not enough sayeth the unions .

[Wondergirl]

Perhaps and how is that being addressed by the union that doesn't even want their rank and file working?

If you were an elementary schoolteacher (let's say 4th grade), how would your schoolday be run during these perilous times of remote learning?

[paraclete]

I'd be attached to a computer interacting with my students over the web

[Athos]

In California and Fairfax VA ; even getting vaccinated in not enough sayeth the unions .

Of course it isn't enough. Also needed/required are masks, hand-washing, social distancing, and proper ventilation. A major problem is people like yourself believe vaccination is all that is needed. As every medical pro has stated ad infinitum, vaccination is NOT enough.

From Paraclete
I'd be attached to a computer interacting with my students over the web

Not every student has a computer to interact with.

[paraclete]

well our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work as does isolation of travellers

[Wondergirl]

I'd be attached to a computer interacting with my students over the web

How would you test them?

[paraclete]

Online test, ask questions, this was done here for three months last year

[Wondergirl]

Online test, ask questions, this was done here for three months last year

Plagiarism? Googling for answers? Doing non-scholastic things?

[jlisenbe]

well our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work

Study after study has shown that transmission of Covid in schools is rare when compared to the general population.

"With masking requirements and student cohorting, transmission risk within schools appeared low, suggesting that schools might be able to safely open with appropriate mitigation efforts in place."


https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=320db233_2

Plagiarism? Googling for answers? Doing non-scholastic things?

This is a good point. Online learning for students in K-6 is a terrible idea.

[Athos]

...schools might be able to safely open with appropriate mitigation efforts in place."

from Paraclete
Our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work

Appropriate mitigation effects, including hygiene and ventilation.

[talaniman]

There is a way to open schools safely, but not addressing the concerns of those involved locally is a mistake that can be corrected. Forcing essential workers, no matter the profession to work without such a verification process ain't the way to go. Even if a school is safe, teachers like everybody else can still be at risk of exposure to covid from other sources. A sick teacher does no one any good. A sick worker does no one any good and adds to the risk and increases the problem.

No need to be hysterical as we figure this stuff out.