[paraclete]

why isn't slavery in the third world an issue, I'll tell you because it isn't happening here and by here I mean in the western world, it has been abolished, and not by the protests of the enslaved

[jlisenbe]

it has been abolished, and not by the protests of the enslaved

Very true.

[Athos]

If you knew anything at all about history, you would know what an absurd statement that is. Slavery in Ethiopia, for instance, has existed for at least five hundred years, and quite likely longer than that. It is hard to imagine how long slavery existed in the nations of the middle east such as Egypt, or in China and Japan. Your alleged "fact" just exposes your bias on the issue.

I rest my case!

The troll has returned. I don't even have to guess who that is.

I say slavery was horrible and he replies I'm biased on the issue. Next we'll learn that he approves slavery - after all the slaves got religion (Christian flavor) and that justifies it. Or the slaves were happy and contented. Or one of the many other memes the racists brought up during slavery and still do.

He denies it was the longest and the worst form of slavery, and he suggests Ethiopia where, "quite likely", it was more than five hundred years, and other places where "it is hard to imagine" what it was like and how long and how bad it was. Quite likely? Hard to imagine? No facts? And he accuses me of "alleging facts".

American slavery was the worst. It was on a larger scale and affected more people negatively. People were forcibly bred like animals. Their religions and languages and even names were stripped away by force. Unlike in other forms of slavery, they were not seen as human, simply because of their outward characteristics. For a time, the Christian Church (Protestant and Catholic) infamously supported it. It was the most organized and cold blooded form of slavery humanity has ever known. We are still facing the effects of it today.

As for the KKK, it has been composed of white evangelicals requiring all members to "profess a belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior". This requirement is claimed by him to be a "ridiculous idea". The Klan has justified its violence through its interpretation of the Bible. Sound familiar? The modern KKK claims cross-burning symbolizes faith in Christ. Not surprisingly, it is "pro-life".

One ignores history at one's own peril.

[jlisenbe]

I say slavery was horrible and he replies I'm biased on the issue.

Unfortunately for you, what you said is part of the record. "slavery - the worst and longest ever recorded in human history - that lasted for 250 years." Are you just incapable of honesty? It's your assertion that the 250 year period of slavery was the "longest ever recorded in human history," that was objected to. There was no question of it being horrible. Try being honest.

He denies it was the longest and the worst form of slavery,

Wrong again. I made no mention of it being the "worst form of slavery" and certainly never denied it. I do deny it was the longest because...IT WASN'T.

and he suggests Ethiopia where, "quite likely", it was more than five hundred years,

I said it had existed for 500 years. That would be twice your figure of 250 years and shows your statement to be flatly untrue.

and other places where "it is hard to imagine" what it was like and how long and how bad it was.

Wrong again, again. I made no mention of how bad it was. If you really think that slavery did not exist in those nations for multiple, multiple centuries, then it is obvious you know nothing of history. You don't allege facts. You simply make it up as you go along. When you are called to task, you get mad about it.

American slavery was the worst. It was on a larger scale and affected more people negatively. People were forcibly bred like animals. Their religions and languages and even names were stripped away by force. Unlike in other forms of slavery, they were not seen as human, simply because of their outward characteristics. For a time, the Christian Church (Protestant and Catholic) infamously supported it. It was the most organized and cold blooded form of slavery humanity has ever known. We are still facing the effects of it today.

Simply not true. If you want to say that slavery in the south was a brutal, large-scale, inhumane enterprise, then you would be correct. Your other hyperbolic assertions are simply nonsense. Read a little about the galley slaves in ancient cultures, or the killing of slaves by the thousands for the mass entertainment of the crowds in Rome. Read about what happened to the Jewish survivors of the sacking of Jerusalem. Do you seriously think that the great rallying cry was, "Treat these poor souls like the humans they are?" As to numbers, Rome had an estimated 10 million or more slaves as compared to 3.5 million for the southern states. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

As for the KKK, it has been composed of white evangelicals requiring all members to "profess a belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior". This requirement is claimed by him to be a "ridiculous idea".

And wrong yet again. I am aware that the kluckers claimed to have a Christian foundation. This is the statement I said was ridiculous. It was, "marked by Christians in white hoods". I doubt there were many genuine Christians in that group. Why? Because as Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruit." Their violent fruit does not lead any reasonable person to conclude that their checking of a box amounted to any real Christian faith. Profession is not the same as possession.

Climb out of your liberal dem bubble for a while. It's not that you are completely wrong. Slavery is a terrible institution, and much of what was practiced in the south was indeed brutal and inhumane, and it was all a moral outrage. You err by making dramatic statements that go too far and are thus wrong.

[paraclete]

american slavery was the worst. It was on a larger scale and affected more people negatively. People were forcibly bred like animals. Their religions and languages and even names were stripped away by force. Unlike in other forms of slavery, they were not seen as human, simply because of their outward characteristics. For a time, the Christian Church (Protestant and Catholic) infamously supported it. It was the most organized and cold blooded form of slavery humanity has ever known. We are still facing the effects of it today.

what was bad about american slavery is that it damaged the nation beyond repair, other nations had slavery but they threw off the yoke but america did not, their unique form of freedom meant they were free to keep other humans as slaves, now they protest when others are imprisoned, enslaved but they do nothing about their swollen prison system which holds more people than elsewhere on earth and the prisoners are in some instances forced to work, are these not slaves

[jlisenbe]

what was bad about american slavery is that it damaged the nation beyond repair,

It was after slavery was ended that our country began its growth towards being a world superpower militarily and economically, so I don't see how we were damaged "beyond repair". We became decidedly better off without it.

I would agree with you that our prison situation is a nightmare and a disgrace. However, I have no problems with prisoners working. It in no way equates to slavery.

[paraclete]

You are damaged beyond repair because more than a century after the civil war you still have serious race problems, yes you are better off without slavery, that isn't the argument. That prison population is also an issue of race

[jlisenbe]

You are damaged beyond repair because more than a century after the civil war you still have serious race problems,

Damaged, yes. Beyond repair? We'll see. I doubt that, but we'll see.

[Wondergirl]

Damaged, yes. Beyond repair? We'll see. I doubt that, but we'll see.

So what's your plan to repair the damage?

[paraclete]

full intergration, I know you have that in some places, but it takes a will to help overcome disadvantage, an intervention perhaps. These things are difficult in a capitalist economy

[tomder55]

Maybe some introspection is in order here . Australia is not a beacon of tolerance . There are 'race provisions' in the constitution that were there at Australia's founding ;and are still there today . The US Constitution amended similar provisions out a long time ago.

[jlisenbe]

So what's your plan to repair the damage?

Treat everyone fairly. Expect everyone who is physically and mentally healthy to earn his/her own way. Abandon forever the victim narrative and stop listening to pathetic whiners. Learn to greatly appreciate the wonderful privilege of living in the land of opportunity.

full intergration, I know you have that in some places, but it takes a will to help overcome disadvantage, an intervention perhaps. These things are difficult in a capitalist economy

What possible impact does the type of economy have on integration?

In a land of freedom where people are given the opportunity to choose, you will never have complete integration. Freedom of opportunity is the key. If you know of an area where that does not exist, then let us know. You might also want to catch us up on the efforts in Australia to integrate the aboriginals into the societal and economic mainstream. For those natives who don't cooperate in such initiatives, what "interventions" are you using to spur them on?

[talaniman]

full intergration, I know you have that in some places, but it takes a will to help overcome disadvantage, an intervention perhaps. These things are difficult in a capitalist economy

Integration has nothing to do with a capitalist economy. Capitalism is a wholly owned and operated monetary system of rich guys for power and influence. They control the flow of money through whatever the market will bear which basically is a marketing ploy to justify whatever they can get away with. Many buy into it for the crumbs they trickle about but make no mistake it's at a high price that they gladly pay for that privilege to have those crumbs. Easy to administer such a system of legalized extraction of wealth when everybody has a price and a value that allows them to have and ignore subjugate oppress and suppress those that don't have.

They are the throwaway cheap labor working poor who are necessary to service the rich. Maybe they live better here than elsewhere, but that's really not saying much, except some kind of comparison to make everybody grateful for what ever crumbs they can gather.

[jlisenbe]

So what's your plan to repair the damage?

Having thought a bit more about it, I'm not even sure what "damage" you are referring to. Slavery ended 155 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 or more years ago. The biggest problems facing minorities now have nothing to do with racial prejudice. Schools, for instance, would be a fairly simple problem to solve. Let parents send their kids to the school of their choice. Give them vouchers for private schools.

[talaniman]

Slavery ended but didn't spell freedom for slave as did Jim Crow which morphed into yet a more insidious form. Of course you can't tell some white people that.

[paraclete]

Maybe some introspection is in order here . Australia is not a beacon of tolerance . There are 'race provisions' in the constitution that were there at Australia's founding ;and are still there today . The US Constitution amended similar provisions out a long time ago.

we also amended them, Tom, after a referendum which allows the government to makes laws regarding the aborigine and including them in the population. what we have failed to do is reconcile the hurt felt by the aborigine from colonisation. I think it is a tear in the fabric of the nation which will never be healed because they don't want it to be. In the same way people in your nation have suffered, ending slavery created an under class. Words don't heal the rifts, no words in the constitution can undo what men of ill will have done

[Athos]

Words don't heal the rifts, no words in the constitution can undo what men of ill will have done

The rifts were created by men of good will but not so good values. Healing requires words and actions.

[talaniman]

we also amended them, Tom, after a referendum which allows the government to makes laws regarding the aborigine and including them in the population. what we have failed to do is reconcile the hurt felt by the aborigine from colonisation. I think it is a tear in the fabric of the nation which will never be healed because they don't want it to be. In the same way people in your nation have suffered, ending slavery created an under class. Words don't heal the rifts, no words in the constitution can undo what men of ill will have done

I guess your aborigines need more than words and amendments just as our own minorities would like more than words and amendments.

[jlisenbe]

Healing requires words and actions.

Healing also requires a desire to be healed. The left prefers to keep racial wounds open. It's good for their politics.

[talaniman]

Healing also requires a desire to be healed. The left prefers to keep racial wounds open. It's good for their politics.

Giving band aids to gunshot wounds is far from my idea of healing, especially given an unwillingness to listen to the size and scope of the problem.

Having thought a bit more about it, I'm not even sure what "damage" you are referring to. Slavery ended 155 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 or more years ago. The biggest problems facing minorities now have nothing to do with racial prejudice. Schools, for instance, would be a fairly simple problem to solve. Let parents send their kids to the school of their choice. Give them vouchers for private schools.

This says it all about your understanding of the problem.