[Athos]

God’s love and goodness led Him to sacrifice His only Son so that people can avert judgment. Hard to imagine how you could find more goodness and love than that.

I knew you would avoid the question. You can't answer it, can you? I didn't think so.

What about all those billions who never heard about that sacrifice?

That's the question at issue which Jl is unable to answer. I'm not surprised. To answer would require Jl's rethinking the Bible. He wouldn't be the first one.

we are supposed to tell them, go ye into all the Earth

What about the ones ye haven't gotten to yet? And the ones who lived and died before Jesus lived? What did ye do about those folks?

[Athos]

'With Athos I am trying to learn to be steady, truthful, and as kind as the situation allows."

One of the great comic lines from Jl. When he says "steady and truthful", that means "consistently insulting" in Jl speak. Part of his habit of giving a different meaning to common words.

He is getting a taste of his own medicine. Like all bullies, he doesn't like being on the receiving end.

Jl combines troll with stalker and, of course, denier of fact - his long-term character.

[jlisenbe]

I knew you would avoid the question. You can't answer it, can you? I didn't think so.

I just did. You must learn to tell the difference between a non-answer versus an answer you simply don't like.

Originally Posted by Wondergirl
What about all those billions who never heard about that sacrifice?

That's the question at issue which Jl is unable to answer. I'm not surprised. To answer would require Jl's rethinking the Bible. He wouldn't be the first one.

I would be content to at least start with the position of Aquinas. "Men are bound to that without which they cannot obtain salvation. Now it is manifest that no one can obtain salvation but through Christ; wherefore the Apostle says (Rom. 5:18): "As by the offense of one unto all men unto condemnation; so also by the justice of one, unto all men unto justification of life." But for this end is Baptism conferred on a man, that being regenerated thereby, he may be incorporated in Christ, by becoming His member: wherefore it is written (Gal. 3:27): "As many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ." Consequently it is manifest that all are bound to be baptized: and that without Baptism there is no salvation for men."

One of the great comic lines from Jl. When he says "steady and truthful", that means "consistently insulting" in Jl speak. Part of his habit of giving a different meaning to common words.

Comic lines? When this is referred to as "dissing" and "bad-mouthing", and was done supposedly "behind (your) back", then how comical is that? "With Athos I am trying to learn to be steady, truthful, and as kind as the situation allows."

Think maybe you're a little overly sensitive?

[jlisenbe]

[paraclete]

wise words you should reflect on them

[Athos]

I just did.

No, you didn't. not even close. Here's the question again:

Which one is true - Matthew's passage or God's love? Both can't be true. Would an unconditionally loving God cast his creatures into his personal torture chamber for all eternity simply because they never heard of or believed in Jesus? Of course not!

I would be content to at least start with the position of Aquinas.

My Aquinas to your God who tortures his creation for all eternity.

With Athos I am trying to learn to be steady, truthful, and as kind as the situation allows.

When he says "steady and truthful", that means "consistently insulting" in Jl speak. Part of his habit of giving a different meaning to common words.

Think maybe you're a little overly sensitive?

No, but I do think you're stupid. ADS.

[jlisenbe]

And here's my answer again. "God’s love and goodness led Him to sacrifice His only Son so that people can avert judgment. Hard to imagine how you could find more goodness and love than that."

I'll stick with Jesus in Matthew 25 and the many other passages where he speaks of eternal judgment.

When he says "steady and truthful", that means "consistently insulting" in Jl speak. Part of his habit of giving a different meaning to common words.

No, but I do think you're stupid. ADS.

The only person being insulting here is you. I think I will not follow your example.

[jlisenbe]

Uh Oh!!

Hunter Biden admitted the laptop whose hard drive contents were obtained by the media in late 2020 “certainly ... could be” his after all,"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...is/ar-BB1ffd3R

[paraclete]

What about the ones ye haven't gotten to yet? And the ones who lived and died before Jesus lived? What did ye do about those folks?

we are required to look after the living, Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, they are his concern not ours so stop being ridiculous as to the living all we can do is tell them the truth so no one said that this wasn't the responsibility of all, not jus one

[Athos]

we are required to look after the living, Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, they are his concern not ours so stop being ridiculous as to the living all we can do is tell them the truth so no one said that this wasn't the responsibility of all, not jus one

Avoiding the question, I see. You're all the same.

As to the living, do you seriously maintain everyone alive has known of Jesus and has decided not to believe in him? Thereby earning eternal punishment in hell?

What is wrong with you guys? Can you not understand the simplest of ideas?

[Athos]

And here's my answer again. "God’s love and goodness led Him to sacrifice His only Son so that people can avert judgment. Hard to imagine how you could find more goodness and love than that."

That's not an answer - that's an evasion. A fact you know damn well, but cannot bring yourself to admit it.

I'll stick with Jesus in Matthew 25

Another evasion. You could not answer my post #277 citing Matthew 25 in this thread. It presents you with some home truths that make your position untenable.

and the many other passages where he speaks of eternal judgment.

You sound like a broken record - nothing new from you, just the same-old, same-old. #277 covers all your passages.

The only person being insulting here is you. I think I will not follow your example.

Another comedy! You are the one who began the whole insulting business. Now, getting burned on your own petard, you are whining about being on the receiving end. Poor baby - grow a pair!

[jlisenbe]

You get the same answers because they are the correct answers. If Jesus is not good enough for you, then you'll just have to deal with Him about it.

Getting burned on my own petard??? Now I KNOW I won't follow your example.

[paraclete]

You don't get burned on petards, you get hung and hoisted you have been

[Athos]

You get the same answers because they are the correct answers.

They are not remotely correct answers. They are EVASIONS! The truth is impossible for you to deal with.

If Jesus is not good enough for you

It's YOU the REAL Jesus is not good enough for. That's why you have him sending most of humanity to eternal torture. Think about that.

Then you'll just have to deal with Him about it.

Oh yeah, now THAT's some answer!! Anything to get out of answering, I see.

Getting burned on my own petard??? Now I KNOW I won't follow your example.

I never offered you an example, did I? If you object to being burned on your own petard, then answer the question. But you won't, will you?

You promote a monstrous, murderous Jesus who doesn't exist and never existed because you worship a book instead of Jesus. Think about THAT - and the First Commandment while you're at it.

[jlisenbe]

John 8:24. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Mt. 25"41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Mt. 10:15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

Colossians 3:5,6. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.

1 Thessalonians 1:10. “Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.”

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 5:22. “But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.”

Matthew 8:11,12. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 10:28. “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Matthew 13:30. (This is the conclusion of the parable of the wheat and tares.) “Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.”

Matthew 13:49,50. “This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Isaiah 45:21,22. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

At some point your feeble protests get buried under an avalanche of scriptural evidence. We have reached, and passed, that point, for there are many others that could be posted as well. So I can believe you, or I can believe the Bible.

I would encourage you to seriously consider this last verse. It answers your question about a God of love and goodness who is also, as Abraham called Him, the "judge of the whole earth".

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have life everlasting.

It is true that I worship and follow the Jesus of the Bible. It would seem that you are following a Jesus of your own invention. Wherever your ideas come from, it is not from the Bible. That explains why you don't use scripture in your arguments.

you worship a book instead of Jesus. Think about THAT - and the First Commandment while you're at it.

You mean the first commandment found in the same book that you just disparaged?

[Athos]

At some point your feeble protests get buried under an avalanche of scriptural evidence. We have reached, and passed, that point, for there are many others that could be posted as well. So I can believe you, or I can believe the Bible.

For all your scriptural "evidence", I refer you to my post #277. That post covers everything you may offer as "evidence". It is noteworthy that you continue to refuse (or are not capable of) answering that post. I wonder why?

I would encourage you to seriously consider this last verse. It answers your question about a God of love and goodness

My question is COMPARING the God you claim is "all-loving" to the monstrous creation you have made of God who sends all those he doesn't like to an eternity of torture.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have life everlasting.

Not even close to the issue at hand - just more of your throwing out Bible verses that you think is an answer. You're been doing this for at least a year. When will you finally discuss the issue without your faulty reading of the Bible?

It is true that I worship and follow the Jesus of the Bible.

No, what you are following is a bad understanding of Jesus that you have been handed since childhood. What you need to do is examine that belief - something you have never done.

It would seem that you are following a Jesus of your own invention. Wherever your ideas come from, it is not from the Bible.

My ideas about Jesus come from the Bible - where else could they come from? The invented Jesus is all yours - and others like you.

That explains why you don't use scripture in your arguments.

I have used the Bible in these discussions. It's just that I don't use an "avalanche" to swamp the discussion like you do. Do you really think Bible verses showing the unconditional love of Jesus are necessary to quote? I should think you would be aware of them by now.

You mean the first commandment found in the same book that you just disparaged?

A - Yes, that commandment. B - I never disparaged the book. I informed you of the proper ways to read the Bible, but you denied that and said the ONLY way is the LITERAL way. You are, in effect, disparaging the book yourself.

[jlisenbe]

There are 2 of us in this discussion. One constantly refers to scripture while the other, as in your last rambling post, never does. Pretty much says it all. You don’t because you have no support there. So if you want to appeal to a particular passage as a foundation for your ideas (whatever they are), then I’ll be glad to respond. Your beliefs hold no interest without Bible support

[waltero]

@jlisenbe: it is clear that some people believe Gods Word has been corrupted.

Jesus spoke about hell more than anybody...be a feared.
@Athos
Better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[jlisenbe]

@jlisenbe: it is clear that some people believe Gods Word has been corrupted.

I really don't know what he believes. It's hard to figure out. But he is interesting to read, so I'll give him that.

[Wondergirl]

@jlisenbe: it is clear that some people believe Gods Word has been corrupted.

Yes, it has been over the millennia -- there have been mistranslations and misinterpretations galore, many deliberate, some horrific, depending on the translators' and interpreters' motivations.