[Athos]

Michael Flynn, the notorious nutcase who was first identified as such by Barack Obama when Obama fired him, and warned President-elect Trump about Flynn, who promptly hired Flynn as National Security Advisor and just as prompltly fired him, and then pardoned him, is now promoting QANON - the wacko conspiracy theory that claims the US government is a pack of cannibalistic pedophiles that eat children and who they cite Trump as their saviour.

Flynn, who also promotes martial law, is the perfect story to mark Trump's exit from the worst presidency in US history.

[jlisenbe]

worst presidency in US history.

If you don't count historic lows in unemployment?

[tomder55]

Flynn was targeted by the emperor and his FBI solely because he disagreed with the emperor's foreign polices and did so publicly .He also signaled that Trump would reverse some of the emperor's policies . They considered him a boogey man then and it is not a surprise he is still considered one .

As for Qanon ... their conspiracy theories about a satanic cult of pedophiles running the country are clearly over the top . But if you don't believe that there is a permanent "deep state " that exists and persists between elected administrations then it is you who are peddling wacko theories .

They are also right that sex trafficking is much more prevalent in this country than most admit . Now where would they get the idea of connecting that
with the deep state ? Oh I don't know . Maybe you should ask Jeffrey Epstein.

The rest of their theory about it all being the work of a satanic cult is on the level of the ancient anti-Semitic blood libel and everyone should denounce it . The sad part is that the conspiracy theory co-ops legitimate movements aimed to address child abuse .

[jlisenbe]

Our new pres, Harris/Biden, supports the killing of 900,000 unborn babies a year. Which sounds more outrageous, Flynn's problem or Harris/Biden's problem?

[Athos]

Flynn was targeted by the emperor and his FBI solely because he disagreed with the emperor's foreign polices and did so publicly .He also signaled that Trump would reverse some of the emperor's policies . They considered him a boogey man then and it is not a surprise he is still considered one .

It's no secret why President Obama warned Trump about Flynn. He fired Flynn from his job long before the campaign because Flynn was an obvious security risk. Obama and his staff felt Flynn was problematic and prone to what they thought of as crazy ideas, and had fired him from his job as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Google for the details.

As for Qanon ... their conspiracy theories about a satanic cult of pedophiles running the country are clearly over the top . But if you don't believe that there is a permanent "deep state " that exists and persists between elected administrations then it is you who are peddling wacko theories .

No, there's no "deep state" and to equate that myth with the far creepier QANON tells us about you.

They are also right that sex trafficking is much more prevalent in this country than most admit . Now where would they get the idea of connecting that with the deep state ? Oh I don't know . Maybe you should ask Jeffrey Epstein.

You're making assumptions and connections that are non-existent. That's how conspiracy theories start. I never figured you for a far-out conspiracy type. The more you post, the more I learn about you. You're becoming a disappointment.

The rest of their theory about it all being the work of a satanic cult is on the level of the ancient anti-Semitic blood libel and everyone should denounce it . The sad part is that the conspiracy theory co-ops legitimate movements aimed to address child abuse .

So, OTHER THAN THE SATANIC CULT PART the theory should not be denounced?

[jlisenbe]

You're becoming a disappointment.

Badge of honor.

[tomder55]

No, there's no "deep state"

Mainstream press even admits to it's existence . Politico ;a NY Slimes correspondent

The Deep State Is Real - POLITICO Magazine

The Deep State by Mike Lofgren: 9780143109938 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books

if it is less offensive ,you can call it “institutional government” .I call it the leviathan . But in any case ,it is definitely real . It does not take it's marching orders from the people elected to oversee the government. There is an entrenched leadership in the permanent government that outlasts elected officials . It elected officials agree with them then no problem ,they carry on . If an elected official tries to reform then they resist and often successfully impose their own policy agenda . It was clear during the impeachment hearings that the permanent State Dept, was willing to go to war with the President over differences in Ukraine policy .
The reason I call it the leviathan is because it is a direct product of a bloated and growing government .The only real way to defeat it is to reduce it and return power to where the framers intended in the Constitution.

[jlisenbe]

Its source of power comes from the fact that firing a federal employee is a real undertaking. They know that, so they just dance to their own tune. It's a major reason why a much smaller fed government is the only solution.

[Athos]

if it is less offensive ,you can call it “institutional government”

Yes, "institutional government" is preferable to Deep State. Deep state has connotations of nefarious undertakings designed to uproot, deface, or undermine legitimate government. In truth, it is essentially the civil service - the unelected workers who devote their careers to government service.

Are some bad guys? Sure, every group has them. See the Catholic Church. But organizing as a large group conspiring to carry out bad things? No. Trump got a hold of the phrase and has used it to mean scary stuff that his core loves, and which they find an explanation for all their troubles. No one denies that Trump is a master con-man.

It was clear during the impeachment hearings that the permanent State Dept, was willing to go to war with the President over differences in Ukraine policy

I'm not sure what you mean by this but if it refers to Trump being guilty as charged, then hooray for institutional government.

The reason I call it the leviathan is because it is a direct product of a bloated and growing government .The only real way to defeat it is to reduce it and return power to where the framers intended in the Constitution.

No, whether bloated or small there will always be a bureaucracy of officials who are there for years. To assume that smallness is a solution is to misunderstand what it is in the first place.

Your two links are interesting. The author (and originator of the phrase) is a Republican (probably ex- by now) who decries what the Republican Party has become after being part of it for 28 years as a government official. It has become a cult in cahoots with the moneyed interests on Wall Street and large corporations. The once-industrialized economy has become a financialized economy responsible for the wide and ever-growing disparity between the haves and have-nots.

What he meant by the Deep State is nothing like you imagine it to be. You have been conned by the master.

[tomder55]

I'm not sure what you mean by this but if it refers to Trump being guilty as charged, then hooray for institutional government.

Nope they objected to him calling the new elected leader of Ukraine and asking assistance in investigating corruption inside Ukraine and the Biden crime family's involvement . Biden being the quintessential deep state representative had to be protected . A lowly Lt Col working for the deep state concluded that Trump was "undermining " policy . Well I hate to break it to him . In our system the ELECTED PRESIDENT sets policy ..... Not some government bureaucrat .
In his own testimony Vindman said :

I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government's support of Ukraine. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national security.

Deep State apparatchiks do not make that call or rather should not have such power to override the President . But clearly Trump's policies have been undermined over and over again by deep staters ..... or the permanent "institutional government ". They are there to serve the President who oversees the executive branch . The executive branch is not there to dictate policy to the President .

[talaniman]

Is this deep state crap anything like the decades of hollering voter fraud without ever finding any?

Are government employees supposed to turn a blind eye to executive wrong doing?

[Athos]

In his own testimony Vindman said :

I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government's support of Ukraine. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national security.

Vindman's testimony was right on the mark. That's why Trump got rid of him (and his brother!!).

Deep State apparatchiks do not make that call or rather should not have such power to override the President

Civil servants are required to expose criminal action no matter who commits the crime. That includes the president.

They are there to serve the President who oversees the executive branch

The first loyalty of any government employee is to serve the country according to the oath they take.