[paraclete]

Just for the record I have no difficulty with the death penalty for heinous crime

[Athos]

Just for the record I have no difficulty with the death penalty for heinous crime

I surmised as much. My objection is based on the execution of innocent men when DNA has later established their innocence. There are too many of those. There is also the philosophical argument that the state has no right to kill a human being convicted of a crime. I find that argument weak.

[jlisenbe]

A little more info.

"Bernard was 18 when he took part in the killing of married youth ministers Todd and Stacie Bagley, who were from Iowa.
Five teens forced the Bagleys into the trunk of their car, robbed them, shot them, then lit the car on fire in 1999.
Todd Bagley's mother, Georgia, said Thursday that "without this process, my family and I would not have the closure needed to move on in life."

"My objection is based on the execution of innocent men when DNA has later established their innocence. There are too many of those.

So far as I can find, there has never been a person executed who was later found to be innocent based on DNA evidence. However, there have been several cases of individuals being executed who were later found to likely be innocent based on other reasons, and additionally there have been cases of individuals on death row being found to be innocent prior to execution by DNA evidence. It is certainly troubling and could very well amount to a compelling reason to abandon capital punishment. The unreliability of the justice system is a genuine problem, so to the likely amazement of everyone including me, I find myself largely in agreement with Athos.

[talaniman]

The dufusites lose yet AGAIN, and this was the BIG one!

Trump’s spin on his big Supreme Court failure is as bad as his legal case (msn.com)

Is this red meat throwing beg for money crap over yet? Doubt it!

[tomder55]

What is the name for a political system in which only the ballot adjudicators decide who is president? We have reached a point in this country where judges decide winners and losers .

Analysis of Antrim County Ballot Machines Made Public - 9 & 10 News (9and10news.com)

[jlisenbe]

It just had to have been Trump's fault. Just had to be.

[paraclete]

Didn't judges always decide winners and losers? Sounds like the system is flawed, voting rules are not uniformly applied, the voting system is a hodge-podge of methodology. I think the name you seek is antiquated, or maybe anarchic and in need of serious review.

What I fail to understand is; in a federal election why is the system not federally administered?

[tomder55]

What I fail to understand is; in a federal election why is the system not federally administered?

Congress has such power . They should revisit the 2005 Carter -Baker Commission on elections ,formed after the 2000 election .They clearly spoke of the dangers of the mail in voting process. The report said ;‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” That was not Trump speaking this election cycle .That was Jimmy Carter and James Baker 15 years ago. They also called on states to increase voter ID requirements; to halt ballot harvesting; to maintain voter lists, in part to ensure dead people are promptly removed from them; to allow election observers to monitor ballot counting; and to make sure voting machines are working properly; the media refrain from calling elections too early and from touting exit polls. Had Congress and state governments adopted many of the panel’s recommendations, the 2020 postelection mess might have been avoided.

[talaniman]

It was only a mess because the dufus and his sycophants have made it one. Repubs including AG Barr have said there was no widespread voter fraud. 60 judicial decisions and SCOTUS have verified that fact.

[tomder55]

and yet I provided forensic proof that at least in Michigan the voting machines were compromised . I'm not saying that by itself was decisive . That is only a handful of the 70 something electors Trump would need . Yet if these machines can be proven to have been programmed to demonstrate that algorithms were used to manipulate the count then if it doesn't overturn this election result when the final decision is made on Jan 6 ,then at least it could prevent them from being used in the Jan run off for GA Senate . .

[talaniman]

Fact check: Dominion voting machines didn't delete or switch votes (usatoday.com)

[tomder55]

and another "fact checker " rushes to the rescue with "facts " . Gotta love those gatekeepers of the truth . The trouble is that your fact checker posted that truth before the forensic audit was conducted in Michigan and published this week .
Microsoft Word - Antrim Michigan Forensics Report 121320(9).docx (9and10news.com)

The audit revealed that “of the 15,676 (lines or events) there were a total of 10,667 critical errors/warnings or a 68.05% error rate.” Later in the report, ASOG says, “These are not human errors; this is definitively related to the software and software configurations resulting in error rates far beyond the thresholds listed in the guidelines.”

based on the preliminary results, we conclude that the errors are so significant that they call into question the integrity and legitimacy of the results in the Antrim County 2020 election to the point that the results are not certifiable. Because the same machines and software are used in 48 other counties in Michigan, this casts doubt on the integrity of the entire election in the state of Michigan.”

[paraclete]

Tom they just don't get that f**kups are very prevalent and it appears that in this electoral cycle they were very prevalent.

[talaniman]

I know Tom, I know I've heard the PUBLIC statements the dufusites have been spouting but none of this was ever presented before a judge. You can lie and bamboozle the public, but in a court before a judge lying is highly illegal with consequences.

60 cases no fruit? Unanimous SCOTUS?

[tomder55]

which leads back to my question ..... What is the name for a political system in which only the ballot adjudicators decide who is president?

a black robed appointed for life oligarchy rubber stamps it . They quickly become part of the permanent government ;just like the bloated bureaucracy .

“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”Nicaraguan Dictator Anastasio Somoza

[paraclete]

Tom how is it you quote a dictator when you have someone closer to home expressing the same opinion

[tomder55]

That is the prevailing view of the judiciary. It is Quid supporters who found votes in the middle of the night in Georgia after counters were told to go home for the night. It was Quid supporters who suddenly put up paper on windows so observers could not see the count in Michigan. It was Quid supporters in Pa who kept ballot monitors so far away from the counters that they needed binoculars.

The pro-swamp courts in almost every case have thrown the challenges out because 'Trump had no standing ' and because even if he was right ,they saw no remedy . So yeah it is the Dems who acted like Somoza . Their coup did not succeed over the last 4 years .So they made sure the count was in their favor.

It is going to happen in Georgia too in the January Senate races. So far 1.2 million mail in ballots have been requested . But only 200,000 have been returned . That leaves the potential for a million "harvested " ballots .

[talaniman]

which leads back to my question ..... What is the name for a political system in which only the ballot adjudicators decide who is president?

Answer. The Electoral College. See the founders for that one.

a black robed appointed for life oligarchy rubber stamps it . They quickly become part of the permanent government ;just like the bloated bureaucracy .

You mean SCOTUS? See the founders for that one too.

“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”Nicaraguan Dictator Anastasio Somoza

See your state for that one, and the founders who gave that power to the states. The dufus was voted out under those guidelines set forth between feds and states despite his best efforts to subvert the Constitution...for now at least. He seems to still control the repub party with an iron fist.

[talaniman]

That is the prevailing view of the judiciary. It is Quid supporters who found votes in the middle of the night in Georgia after counters were told to go home for the night. It was Quid supporters who suddenly put up paper on windows so observers could not see the count in Michigan. It was Quid supporters in Pa who kept ballot monitors so far away from the counters that they needed binoculars.

The pro-swamp courts in almost every case have thrown the challenges out because 'Trump had no standing ' and because even if he was right ,they saw no remedy . So yeah it is the Dems who acted like Somoza . Their coup did not succeed over the last 4 years .So they made sure the count was in their favor.

It is going to happen in Georgia too in the January Senate races. So far 1.2 million mail in ballots have been requested . But only 200,000 have been returned . That leaves the potential for a million "harvested " ballots .

Nice spin as usual Tomder, but repub run states as well as dem run states have certified this election. The dufus had his days in court and got thrown out. That's one huge helluva conspiracy the dems pulled off which had no chance at success without plenty of repub help, unless you're still stuck on Xi voting twice.

Hardcore dufusite sour grapes, or a plea for cheese to go with conspiracy theory whine? I think you give the dems way to much credit, and should look to the people and party and events that ran the last 4 years.

[tomder55]

the question is ;was the laws enacted by the state legislatures used ? Or did Governors and courts impose rules ? The framers were clear on that matter . Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors,