[Athos]

There are 3 more or less successful vaccines waiting in the wings to be approved and distributed.

The question:

Are these the result of free market enterprise?
OR
Are they the result of big government intervention?

[jlisenbe]

Simple answer. Who developed and own those companies? Is it private individuals or the government?

Put another way. What was the absolutely essential element, the knowledge, skill, and experience of the privately owned pharm companies, or the money and lessening of regulations of big gov? Which one could you have eliminated and still gotten the job done?

[tomder55]

Trump loosened the regulatory burden to speed up the process . So if you think that easing the regulatory burden is the same as big government intervention then I now understand your confusion.

[talaniman]

What regulatory burden did the dufus ease to speed up vaccine development?

[paraclete]

he said do it

[Athos]

Trump loosened the regulatory burden to speed up the process . So if you think that easing the regulatory burden is the same as big government intervention then I now understand your confusion.

Read what follows. Look like socialism to you, Tomder? Or, if you prefer, a capitalism/socialism mix? Better yet, as I originally stated, capitalism modified by socialism.

OWS, the Trump Administration Operation Warp Speed, offered $456 million to vaccine research and development projects by Johnson and Johnson as well as a total of $955 million to Moderna for late-stage clinical testing. The $1.95 billion allocated to Pfizer was for large-scale manufacturing and nationwide distribution.

The work conducted by Pfizer and its partner, German drugmaker BioNTech, is an expansion of OWS and was operating under an agreement to meet the goal of OWS to deliver 300 million doses of a vaccine in 2021. “Pfizer is proud to be one of various vaccine manufacturers participating in Operation Warp Speed as a supplier of a potential COVID-19 vaccine,” said Sharon Castillo, a Pfizer spokesperson.

Mike Pence and Nikki Haley both credited the government with leading the public/private partnership leading to the success of the vaccine.

Who's confused now, tom?

[jlisenbe]

OWS, the Trump Administration Operation Warp Speed, offered $456 million to vaccine research and development projects by Johnson and Johnson as well as a total of $955 million to Moderna for late-stage clinical testing. The $1.95 billion allocated to Pfizer was for large-scale manufacturing and nationwide distribution.

Well, at least you are willing to give Trump credit for the rapid development of the vaccine. That's better than others on this board.

[talaniman]

Well, at least you are willing to give Trump credit for the rapid development of the vaccine. That's better than others on this board.

Certainly good news but the question was not credit for the dufus but what was the regulatory easing that you have put forth. It's a given the labs were going to develop a vaccine ASAP, they always have, and they deserve as much credit as the dufus for what they have done, but your claim was regulatory relief and I want to know what it was...if you know.

A simple enough question since you offered it.

[jlisenbe]

A simple enough question since you offered it.

Kind of aggravating to ask a question and not get an answer, isn't it? I assure you I know exactly how you feel. I guess I could follow your example and tell you that Google is your friend.

Well, since I despise that approach, I'll give you this link which includes, " In some cases, the U.S. government has agreed to purchase vaccines that achieve emergency-use authorization or licensure from the FDA. In other cases, the U.S. government is paying to manufacture vaccine doses while clinical trials are underway. "

You can dig through the rest and find additional examples.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...operation-war/

And an interesting article about the anti-Trump at all costs media.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/09...on-warp-speed/

[talaniman]

Thanks for the link about the contractual agreements, but I specified in my question the claim by you and Tom as to the regulatory burden that was eased. I can give the dufus his due credit for what he gets right, but do we have to exaggerate his doing his job and ignore what he didn't/doesn't do that makes things worse? I don't thinks so!

We have a vaccine in record time, but the very real deployment is MONTHS off. It would seem that with an endpoint in sight, targeted mitigation strategies would be ramped up to get us there, as even now the problem is exponentially growing out of control.

I mean dude is playing golf and not putting out the fires that crop up like he promised. He's more worried about making a case to unmasked crowds about voter fraud than sickness and death. Does that make sense to you? The election is over, his court cases have failed. History will write his legacy so whining to his base doesn't seem like a useful endeavor to what faces the nation.

Funny how you point out the dems hypocrisy while the holler masks and don't do it themselves but spare the dufus any such criticism for his holding super spreader events himself.

[jlisenbe]

Tom as to the regulatory burden that was eased

Not only did you not read the article, you didn't even read the excerpt I posted where it showed two areas where the regs were relaxed.

but the very real deployment is MONTHS off.

Only if you believe that the end of December is MONTHS off. They expect to have twenty million vaccinated by the end of this month.

[talaniman]

Not only did you not read the article, you didn't even read the excerpt I posted where it showed two areas where the regs were relaxed.

Only if you believe that the end of December is MONTHS off. They expect to have twenty million vaccinated by the end of this month.

Please show me and forgive my inability to see what you have articulated.

[jlisenbe]

" In some cases, the U.S. government has agreed to purchase vaccines that achieve emergency-use authorization or licensure from the FDA.

Not normally done.

In other cases, the U.S. government is paying to manufacture vaccine doses while clinical trials are underway. "

Not normally done.

More.

"Protocols for the demonstration of safety and efficacy are being aligned, which will allow the trials to proceed more quickly, and the protocols for the trials will be overseen by the federal government, as opposed to traditional public-private partnerships, in which pharmaceutical companies decide on their own protocols. Rather than eliminating steps from traditional development timelines, steps will proceed simultaneously, such as starting manufacturing of the vaccine at industrial scale well before the demonstration of vaccine efficacy and safety as happens normally. This increases the financial risk, but not the product risk."

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

[talaniman]

The NIH’s top vaccine maker wants Warp Speed to be the new normal | Ars Technica

The Zika and Ebola outbreaks followed similar tracks. As we see from the links though is Big Pharma had already been working on corona viruses before last years outbreak.

[jlisenbe]

That's nice to know.

[tomder55]

yeah that it what capitallsts do. They anticipate a need and plan to provide goods and services for the need. The virus was first identified somewhere in the late fall last year . I expect they called in their PD staff and told them to do their science and perhaps get a jump on their competition .

New drug and device from R&D to approval averages from 7 to 12 years from pre-clinical trial to approval .

Drug Approvals - From Invention to Market...12 Years! (medicinenet.com)

The vaccines will be approved and distribution will have begun in a matter of months . That would not have been possible without streamlining .

[Athos]

New drug and device from R&D to approval averages from 7 to 12 years from pre-clinical trial to approval .
The vaccines will be approved and distribution will have begun in a matter of months . That would not have been possible without streamlining .

I see you're avoiding my post # 6. I'm not surprised.

[jlisenbe]

Who's confused now, tom?

It's very clear that you are the one. To try and characterize OWS as a glowing example of socialism is as silly as trying to portray defense contracts in the same way. The government basically funded much of the work on the vaccines, relaxed regs to speed up the process, and private businesses (free enterprise) did the work. It's a great example of what can be done when the presence of the government is minimized.

[talaniman]

It's very clear that you are the one. To try and characterize OWS as a glowing example of socialism is as silly as trying to portray defense contracts in the same way. The government basically funded much of the work on the vaccines, relaxed regs to speed up the process, and private businesses (free enterprise) did the work. It's a great example of what can be done when the presence of the government is minimized.

That's not completely accurate as Athos characterized OWS as public/private as do many others. A blend of many factors if you really need a label for emergency action during a crisis. None of us has to be confused if we stop with politicizing labels and comparing one thing over another when all hands on deck for whatever works best is the goal.

It really does prove that different things can be successfully blended together and actually work.

The vaccines will be approved and distribution will have begun in a matter of months . That would not have been possible without streamlining .

Collaborative cooperation is a good label.

[jlisenbe]

Athos characterized OWS as public/private

What was his point in doing that?

A blend of many factors if you really need a label for emergency action during a crisis. None of us has to be confused if we stop with politicizing labels and comparing one thing over another when all hands on deck for whatever works best is the goal.

Sort of. I wouldn't care to swap short term gains for long term loss of freedom.