Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #1

    Nov 28, 2020, 05:28 AM
    Roman catholic diocese of Brooklyn, New York v. Andrew m. Cuomo, governor of New York
    SCOTUS decision is a victory for 1st amendment rights to free exercise of religion.
    20A87 Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v. Cuomo (11/25/2020) (supremecourt.gov)

    As with all of the rights enumerated there are no 'absolute ' rights. Yes it is an absolute right to believe .But there is not necessarily an absolute right to act. Certain religious practices have been outlawed. Human sacrifice comes immediately to mind. But so does the decision to outlaw polygamy . There are mandates to get vaccinated that conflict with religious beliefs . SCOTUS in the past has played the balancing ct with the idea that there may be compelling reasons for the state to over rule religious practice. I fall in with those who think that in most cases that the 1st amendment right to free exercise takes precedent . In this case ;and I live in an area where this case comes into play; the public health aspect could outweigh the religious freedom aspect . But in this case clearly the religious freedom argument ,and the disparate treatment argument won the

    The majority opinion and the concurrence opinions by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are based on 1st amendment grounds .

    Roberts and concurring dissents by Kagan ,Sotomayor and Breyer are based on the fact that il duce Cuomo had already lifted the severe restrictions .They therefore believe the case should not have been decided by SCOTUS since the point was moot . But Cuomo makes decrees on a whim . The real point is that he had severe restrictions on religious institutions that he did not impose on secular places . He designated places like Walmart as 'essential ' and waved his draconian restrictions on them ? Well why is not religious gathering essential ? Certainly a church or synagogue that can fit 500 -1000 congregants can comply with the covid restrictions that are imposed on grocery stores and restaurants .
    The minority punted on the issue because they know the religious institutions were right .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #2

    Nov 28, 2020, 07:14 AM
    I find the Supreme Court ruling a sad commentary that ignores condition during a health crisis. Part of the uncontrolled nature of this virus is the right wing ignoring it for economic and social considerations (RIGHTS). In essence SCOTUS is saying you have a right to spread sickness and death during a health crisis.

    Have at it, but failure to do what it takes to control this virus is the very reason you need more freezer trucks and frontline workers are getting infected...exhausted, and burned out, and infections and death spreading even faster.

    You sure showed Cuomo didn't you.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #3

    Nov 28, 2020, 07:30 AM
    we do not sacrifice rights in a crisis. I mentioned that SCOTUS has to consider the public health impacts . But signaling out religious institutions for disparate treatment where people gather is plain wrong . The minority opinion did not even argue against that fundamental point. If it is unsafe to gather more than 10 people for a religious ceremony then it is equally unsafe to gather more than 10 people at a shopping mall on Black Friday ...... no ? Cuomo the weasel tried to make the case go away by changing the color code in the area at the last minute .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #4

    Nov 28, 2020, 07:58 AM
    I get it Tom. You righties aren't flexible during this crisis. It's no sacrifice to observe your religion at home and we have the technology to do so and many do. So go ahead and pack 'em in we have plenty of ventilators and masks and hospitals and workers and refrigerator trucks.

    And the vaccine is on it's way for whomever survives.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #5

    Nov 28, 2020, 08:07 AM
    It's no sacrifice to observe your religion at home
    So it's wrong to go to church, but just fine to go to a ballgame, or participate in large crowds engaged in "protesting", or stand with a crowd in a liquor store? SCOTUS correctly decided that the opportunity to gather together to worship is a Constitutionally protected right, whereas there are no such corresponding rights to riot, go to ballgames, or buy liquor.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #6

    Nov 28, 2020, 09:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So it's wrong to go to church, but just fine to go to a ballgame, or participate in large crowds engaged in "protesting", or stand with a crowd in a liquor store? SCOTUS correctly decided that the opportunity to gather together to worship is a Constitutionally protected right, whereas there are no such corresponding rights to riot, go to ballgames, or buy liquor.
    Get REAL! No one is even saying that not even Cuomo. He lifted church restrictions. It's up to the institutions to figure out how to SAFELY engage in human activity. I get rights, but is it SAFE? I will point out the laws against rioting, and protesting OUTSIDE, and even schools and restaurants being outside or socially distance.

    Are you wingers saying you can't figure out how to attend church safely, or NOT even willing to try? THAT's the problem...YOU!

    we do not sacrifice rights in a crisis.
    Many are sacrificing their lives for your rights...in a crisis.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Nov 28, 2020, 10:15 AM
    Get REAL! No one is even saying that not even Cuomo.
    Of course he is. Go to a crowded liquor store? Fine. Go to a large protest gathering where thousands are gathered together in close quarters? Fine. Go to a ballgame with thousands of other people? Fine. Go to church? Arrest those people!!

    He lifted church restrictions. It's up to the institutions to figure out how to SAFELY engage in human activity. I get rights, but is it SAFE? I will point out the laws against rioting, and protesting OUTSIDE, and even schools and restaurants being outside or socially distance.
    He lifted church restrictions AFTER it was obvious he was in for a court battle.

    Are you wingers saying you can't figure out how to attend church safely, or NOT even willing to try? THAT's the problem...YOU!
    That was not the question. His church restrictions had basically shut churches down.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #8

    Nov 28, 2020, 10:42 AM
    He lifted church restrictions.
    He saw the writing on the wall and it appears taking him to court is the way to curb his dictatorial .
    tendencies

    It's up to the institutions to figure out how to SAFELY engage in human activity.
    indeed it is . When a Catholic Church can fit 1,000 people ,then 25% means 250 people can safely gather ;which is more than most masses that get celebrated . Not 10 people .

    Many are sacrificing their lives for your rights...in a crisis.
    Not true . The only spread amongst religious communities has been in the Orthodox Jewish Community ;and they are pretty much a self contained community here , If they get sick or spread it to their community it is on them .
    But that was not the issue . The issue was that religious communities were being unconstitutionally singled out for disparate treatment compared to secular establishments . Sorry if you don't like it but religious liberty is Amendment 1 part 1 . That was the first liberty that concerned the people after the adoption of the constitution .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #9

    Nov 28, 2020, 11:25 AM
    Good argument but when it spreads to hospitals then it's not just a community problem anymore is it? That's about where individual rights end when they impact adversely the rights of others.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #10

    Nov 28, 2020, 11:29 AM
    That's about where individual rights end when they impact adversely the rights of others.
    So a group of Christians gathering in a church in a safe and responsible manner somehow adversely impacts your rights?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #11

    Nov 28, 2020, 12:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So a group of Christians gathering in a church in a safe and responsible manner somehow adversely impacts your rights?
    Stop twisting my words! What's your problem?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #12

    Nov 28, 2020, 12:25 PM
    New Mexico showed the largest increase among states for newly confirmed COVID cases this past week followed by Virginia ,Arizona ,and Vermont . What do all these states have in common ? (hint it isn't their large Orthodox Jewish communities .) Yes you are right ;they all voted for Quid .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #13

    Nov 28, 2020, 12:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    What do all these states have in common ? (hint it isn't their large Orthodox Jewish communities .) Yes you are right ;they all voted for Quid .
    Must be God's judgment raining down on them....
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #14

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:01 PM
    I don't subscribe to such silly simplistic explanations .This is mimicking the 1918 flu . I 've said it before. When herd immunity is achieved through infection or vaccine the pandemic will end . All these petty dictators are not following the science.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #15

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:02 PM
    Stop twisting my words! What's your problem?

    Your words. That's about where individual rights end when they impact adversely the rights of others.


    My reply: So a group of Christians gathering in a church in a safe and responsible manner somehow adversely impacts your rights?

    That's twisting your words???
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:05 PM
    delete
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #17

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    New Mexico showed the largest increase among states for newly confirmed COVID cases this past week followed by Virginia ,Arizona ,and Vermont . What do all these states have in common ? (hint it isn't their large Orthodox Jewish communities .) Yes you are right ;they all voted for Quid .
    The same trends are present in states that voted for the dufus so what's the point?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #18

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:18 PM
    His point was that the top four all voted dem.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #19

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:25 PM
    My only point on this topic is that SCOTUS correctly sided with religious liberty and that the minority in the court did not even address the core issue instead deciding to punt over a technicality . BTW you were worried about the court ? Well John Roberts like many Republican nominees in the past has proven that he lied in the hearings and is not an impartial 'referee ' .Since he is no longer the swing vote ;he has decided to go all in with the activists on the court .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #20

    Nov 28, 2020, 01:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    His point was that the top four all voted dem.
    10 U.S. States With Most COVID Cases Per 100,000 People in Past 7 Days (newsweek.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    My only point on this topic is that SCOTUS correctly sided with religious liberty and that the minority in the court did not even address the core issue instead deciding to punt over a technicality . BTW you were worried about the court ? Well John Roberts like many Republican nominees in the past has proven that he lied in the hearings and is not an impartial 'referee ' .Since he is no longer the swing vote ;he has decided to go all in with the activists on the court .
    Just another tool excluded from the corona mitigation tool box.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Roman Catholic Wedding, or Not? [ 19 Answers ]

I have a couple of questions for my Roman Catholic friends regarding a wedding I attended last week. The circumstances were a bit strange, and I'm curious how the RC church would view this. Background: the bride is Catholic, the groom Protestant (Presbyterian I think, but not entirely sure). ...

IF I live in Florida and work in New York do I have to pay state taxes for New York [ 1 Answers ]

I live in Florida and will be working in New York 4 days a week. Will I have to pay New York state taxes on that income?

Roman Catholic Antichrist? [ 126 Answers ]

Here is My Reasons Why am I not Roman Catholic? 1. OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ... 310AD. 2. Wax...

Cheap apartment in brooklyn, calafornia, New York. [ 2 Answers ]

Hi, One of my friends and myself are looking to move to america this August or September from australia and are trying to find cheap apartments in New York, brooklyn, calafornia, miami or somewhere in this area or anywhere close to these places that are cheap. To me cheap is about $150 to $200...


View more questions Search