[tomder55]

How was China able to get it under control so quickly and keep it under control, it is because their population are not so susceptible

That is a presumption without evidence . The Chinese are not exactly transparent . Even so ,I'm sure their complete lock downs like they did at Wuhan is completely unacceptable to free people .

[paraclete]

That is a presumption without evidence . The Chinese are not exactly transparent . Even so ,I'm sure their complete lock downs like they did at Wuhan is completely unacceptable to free people .

No Tom some free people have submitted to lockdowns, the Australian state of Victoria is an example, and the rest of us had a month lockdown at the start of the pandemic and are largely CV19 free today. But you americans would rather be free to spread the virus, how is that doing for you, not so well?

I still say the virus was engineered and europeans are particularly susceptible

[talaniman]

That's our problem, Clete, freedom has nothing to do with getting this virus under control no matter how hard some try to make it the issue. None of us knew how fragile our economy really was that it could be so easily destroyed by a bug.

That's a pretty hard thing to accept.

[Athos]

But you americans would rather be free to spread the virus, how is that doing for you, not so well?

That's partially true, 'clete. But a very big part of our poor reaction to the virus is Trump encouraging everyone to do the opposite to what is and was necessary.

He mocks masks, he refuses to take action to use the Defense Protection Act, he claimed (for too long) it was a hoax invented by Dems, he made several totally false statements about COVID that were criticized by his own scientists, and he continues to lead Americans astray with his false BS.

He is now starting to hold rallies again with people packed next to each other. His comments this morning re his Mussolini Balcony Speech yesterday was incredibly revealing. He spoke again and again about how safe he was, how far from the crowd below, and how great he was feeling, and that he was "cured".

It was all about Trump - not a single word about the two thousand souls who had gathered to hear him packed in like sardines and mostly without masks.

Had he closely followed science as more information was known over time, we would have about 80% fewer deaths as the toll is now over 213,000 and growing. The figure of 80% is what the scientists have come up with after examining all facets of the response.

The prognosis is not good as long as Trump has the bully pulpit.

[tomder55]

No Tom some free people have submitted to lockdowns, the Australian state of Victoria is an example, and the rest of us had a month lockdown at the start of the pandemic and are largely CV19 free today.

Sorry you are just plain wrong .No other people locked down to the extent that the Chinese imposed. Theirs was draconian and only an authoritarian state like China (or someone like Quid would like to do here ) could get away with it in a free state . They had a cordon sanitaire on the whole city of Wuhan and two other cities nearby. Starting February 2,suspected or mild cases; and even healthy close contacts of confirmed cases ;were sent to makeshift hospitals and quarantine centers. This involved turning hundreds of hotels, schools into quarantine centers . They built a new hospital and created 14 more in public housing . 40,000 medical workers were bused in from all over China, and the city’s residents were sealed into their homes. It is all documented in a movie by Chinese artist Ai Weiwei called 'Coronation ' . It shows the efficiency of the dictatorial state as well as the crushing brutality that goes along with that efficiency. You will be hard pressed to find it at more traditional outlets like Netflix Amazon because they fear the Chinese backlash . But it is available in sites like Vimeo .
The description on Vimeo tells it all .

China has assumed the status of superpower on the global stage, yet it remains poorly understood by other nations. Through the lens of the pandemic, “Coronation” clearly depicts the Chinese crisis management and social control machine—through surveillance, ideological brainwashing, and brute determination to control every aspect of society. The film shows the changes that took place in a city and in individual space under the impact of the virus; it illustrates the value of individual life in the political environment, reflecting on the difficulties we face as individuals and countries in the context of globalization. Ultimately, the result is a society lacking trust, transparency, and respect for humanity. Despite the impressive scale and speed of the Wuhan lockdown, we face a more existential question: can civilization survive without humanity? Can nations rely on one another without transparency or trust?

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/267483/449847367


people were forced into quarantine and forced to take medications .

https://www.texarkanagazette.com/new...asures/839705/

Clete you love their methods so much ;go move there . The fact is that first they covered up the extent of the virus in China . They lied to the world from November to February . And they imposed draconian lock down on their cities while also permitting travel outside of China.

[Athos]

No other people locked down to the extent that the Chinese imposed. Theirs was draconian and only an authoritarian state like China

Agree with this. Especially when I learn what the Chinese are doing with the Muslims in Western China (with Trump's approval).

[tomder55]

They have been persecuting the Uighurs for years ;long before Trump(at least since 1966) . Where is your evidence of "Trump's approval" ?

[Athos]

Where is your evidence of "Trump's approval" ?

After being confronted with the charge, Trump explained that he held off on punishing the Chinese for their forced internment of the Uighers in mass detention camps to avoid placing ongoing trade negotiations in jeopardy.


The New York Post reported that the source was the interpreter at the G20 meeting in 2019. Another source was a high-placed administration official, Matt Pottinger, who told John Bolton that Trump had approved of the camps. Trump later called Bolton a liar, saying that “everybody in the White House hated him”.


Trump has consistently expressed hostility toward Muslims dating from the beginning of his presidency when he tried to prevent them from migrating to America.

[tomder55]

If that is the case the all of America is complicit in approving a genocide against the Uighurs .I have commented about it frequently . America was always more interested in forging business relations with the Chinese and overlooked the crime.

As an example ;the emperor was President for 8 years during China's genocide and did nothing despite pleas by the Uighurs .

https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/wh...-on-activists/

Both houses of Congress were late to the game too. Their sanction bill was passed in June ,and Trump signed it immediately . Surely the Chinese would've made an issue of Trump's approval if it true .

Trump holding off sanctions in an attempt to complete a trade deal is a far cry from Bolton's outrageous and unconfirmed claim that Trump encouraged XI to build concentration camps . That claim comes from a futile attempt by Bolton to write a book anyone would actually read.

[paraclete]

Clete you love their methods so much ;go move there . The fact is that first they covered up the extent of the virus in China . They lied to the world from November to February . And they imposed draconian lock down on their cities while also permitting travel outside of China.

Really Tom the strawman argument, I don't love their methods, but they obviously did what needed to be done to contain the virus in Wuhan, pity you didn't do the same in New York. permitting travel outside China feeds into the conspiracy theory that they wanted to spread the virus. Italy suffered early and had a large Chinese population but I continue to say the virus is engineered, particularly to play to european susceptibilities

I'm sure you consider our methods draconian too, closing borders and locking down parts of the country but it has resulted in many fewer deaths and limited community transmission

[talaniman]

That's some theory considering every human population on Earth is infected and rising as they are trying to restore economic activity. The dufus has a cure though just like Vlad has one already. Dufusites would rather live free and die than do what it takes to control the virus.

That messages comes from the top along with a bunch of other complete nonsense.

[tomder55]

so tal are you also signing on to the Chinese solution ..... locking people in their homes until the virus magically goes away ? Suppose this is the next flu that doesn't go away . Then what ?
Clete's theory is absurd. Cases in the US are not race dependent . In fact cases are higher in minority communities
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ethnicity.html

To date there have been 7 million cases in India .

[paraclete]

That's some theory considering every human population on Earth is infected and rising as they are trying to restore economic activity. The dufus has a cure though just like Vlad has one already. Dufusites would rather live free and die than do what it takes to control the virus.

That messages comes from the top along with a bunch of other complete nonsense.

Absurd? the only people who have large populations and don't have large numbers of cases is China, if they are to be believed. Why don't they have millions of cases? All the races who have large numbers of infections are not east asian, sure looks suspicous to me

[talaniman]

Maybe unlike China, those countries cannot do a darn thing about the virus, or have no will or technology to do so. Absurd? Maybe, but not the word I would use. Tragic is more like it as a man made disaster intentional or not has to be dealt with, just like any other disaster that is visited on us humans. Even if its a Chinese plot, what should we do about it?

[paraclete]

Maybe unlike China, those countries cannot do a darn thing about the virus, or have no will or technology to do so. Absurd? Maybe, but not the word I would use. Tragic is more like it as a man made disaster intentional or not has to be dealt with, just like any other disaster that is visited on us humans. Even if its a Chinese plot, what should we do about it?

visit misery upon them

[talaniman]

I'm all ears!

[paraclete]

You don't have to do anything you are not already doing, the backlash of CV19 is leaving their industries devastated with many businesses migrating, so just continue the trend and withdraw from China, if they act on Taiwan you will have to anyway, so get on with it. Japan has provided a bounty for industries returning from China, do likewise, but there are other allies who could benefit from such an approach, the Philippines, India, Pakistan to name a few of the many

They are rapidly talking themselves out of benefiting from our industries thinking they will devastate us, but the opposite is true, for every door that closes another opens